How Many Resurrections In Revelation? III

[Darrell C]

Rev 11:11 doesn't tell us the Resurrection.

Sure it does...


Revelation 11:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.



...it is the Resurrection unto life. Has to be, because they are caught up to Heaven:


Revelation 11:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:9 mentions that they are not buried in the graves. How can they be resurrected?

So you do not think that Scripture means they died when it says clearly they did?

Being Raptured not only does not require physical death, though, Paul makes it clear that in the Rapture the dead are raised first then those who remain (the living). These are not buried either.

1 Cor 15:23 tells us the order of Resurrection.

Agreed.

First : Christ

The true "first" resurrection, when we consider sequence. He is the first to be raised in glorified form.

Second : those with Christ when He is coming
Third : the last after the coming of Christ.

Not the last: we still see a resurrection one thousand years after the First Resurrection.

Remember, we are considering every resurrection in Revelation, not just those raptured.

Why does the Bible omit Rev 11:11?

It does not.

Those are 2 witnesses= 2 prophets=2 Olive trees=2 candlesticks, who are the Anointed ones standing besides the Lord ( Zechariah 4:14), who are faithful cores of the Believers like 144,000.

"Like..."

Not "The..."

And those standing with Christ have not died, have not been resurrected. Nothing in the text I can think of that suggests that. I will take a look while the singing is going on in service this morning, lol.

3 and 1/2 days mean 3 and a half years during which 144 K are almost like dead but were not buried.

Sorry, but I reject the spiritualization of a fairly simple passage.

There is nothing in the text about them being "almost like dead," but it is clear they are dead, that evidenced by their corpses lying in the street with a refusal for burial by the wicked.

Only those 144K will be raptured as we can notice they are standing with Christ on the mount Zion ( Re 14:1-)

Nothing in Scripture whatsoever to support such a view. The 144,000 are living Men of Israel, evidenced by specific mention of the Twelve Tribes (Dan excluded).

There will be no resurrection before the first Resurrection in Re 20:5.

There is. The Two witnesses will be raised and Heaven prior to the resurrection of the Tribulation Martyrs. And because of this, the argument that the First Resurrection denies a Pre-Trib Rapture is itself denied, just as the thought that Enoch and Elijah must be the Two Witnesses because they never died (which position I do not take either, this would mean they have lived in Heaven in unredeemed flesh for at least two thousand years which is an impossibility), because by that time all raptured will have been glorified without dying.

If there is any resurrection before Re 20:5, Re 20:5 cannot be the first Resurrection.

It can if we understand the usage of the word in Scripture.

What is the first commandment of God?

Hint: "Do not eat of this tree."

Bible is not stupid.


Eliyahu

And on this we agree.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

What was the FIRST covenant, 'going with the actual bible'?

This is a great question, worthy of a thread.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is a great question, worthy of a thread.


God bless.

The Covenant between the Trinity, One of Works between Adam and God, or?

 

[BobRyan]

This is a great question, worthy of a thread.


God bless.

The very first covenant is in Gen 2 - obey and live.

 

[BobRyan]

True.

So then Rev 20:6 is the FIRST resurrection.

Just as in 1Thess 4 "The DEAD in Christ rise FIRST"

I will have to go with the actual Bible.

The rapture is not that Resurrrection though, as the souls of all who died in jesus come back with him at time of rapture event!

The rapture takes place when Jesus "Comes again to receive you to myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also" -- the 2nd coming.

John sees it in Rev 19 and sees the resurrection that accompanies it in Rev 20 calling it the "FIRST resurrection".

Looking into the future the resurrection called 'The FIRST resurrection" by John - is in Rev 20.

This is irrefutable.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

The very first covenant is in Gen 2 - obey and live.

How many covenants did we have BEFORE the Cross?

 

[Eliyahu]

Sure it does...


Revelation 11:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.



...it is the Resurrection unto life. Has to be, because they are caught up to Heaven:


Revelation 11:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.





So you do not think that Scripture means they died when it says clearly they did?

Being Raptured not only does not require physical death, though, Paul makes it clear that in the Rapture the dead are raised first then those who remain (the living). These are not buried either.




Agreed.




The true "first" resurrection, when we consider sequence. He is the first to be raised in glorified form.




Not the last: we still see a resurrection one thousand years after the First Resurrection.

Remember, we are considering every resurrection in Revelation, not just those raptured.



It does not.




"Like..."

Not "The..."

And those standing with Christ have not died, have not been resurrected. Nothing in the text I can think of that suggests that. I will take a look while the singing is going on in service this morning, lol.




Sorry, but I reject the spiritualization of a fairly simple passage.

There is nothing in the text about them being "almost like dead," but it is clear they are dead, that evidenced by their corpses lying in the street with a refusal for burial by the wicked.




Nothing in Scripture whatsoever to support such a view. The 144,000 are living Men of Israel, evidenced by specific mention of the Twelve Tribes (Dan excluded).




There is. The Two witnesses will be raised and Heaven prior to the resurrection of the Tribulation Martyrs. And because of this, the argument that the First Resurrection denies a Pre-Trib Rapture is itself denied, just as the thought that Enoch and Elijah must be the Two Witnesses because they never died (which position I do not take either, this would mean they have lived in Heaven in unredeemed flesh for at least two thousand years which is an impossibility), because by that time all raptured will have been glorified without dying.




It can if we understand the usage of the word in Scripture.

What is the first commandment of God?

Hint: "Do not eat of this tree."




And on this we agree.


God bless.

Brother Darell,

I will give you the freedom to enjoy believing whatever you think right.


Eliyahu

 

[vooks]

Brother Darell,

I will give you the freedom to enjoy believing whatever you think right.


Eliyahu

That is an unhealthy way to debate. Share the basis for your beliefs just as Darrel just did. What makes you think the two witnesses are not literal?

 

[Darrell C]

The Covenant between the Trinity, One of Works between Adam and God, or?

Bob put's forth a notable contender:

The very first covenant is in Gen 2 - obey and live.

Again, great topic for a thread, but back to topic: how can this be the "first covenant?" Clearly the writer of Hebrews is speaking about the Covenant of Law, that must mean that there were no Covenants prior to the Law.

Right?


Hebrews 9:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The rapture takes place when Jesus "Comes again to receive you to myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also" -- the 2nd coming.

John sees it in Rev 19 and sees the resurrection that accompanies it in Rev 20 calling it the "FIRST resurrection".

Looking into the future the resurrection called 'The FIRST resurrection" by John - is in Rev 20.

This is irrefutable.

in Christ,

Bob

Perhaps not irrefutable. Again, if the First Resurrection is the Rapture...who populates the Millennial Kingdom?

In the Rapture all believers are glorified, leaving no-one to physically inhabit the Kingdom.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Brother Darell,

I will give you the freedom to enjoy believing whatever you think right.


Eliyahu

I don't see it as a freedom to enjoy, but a command to understand and defend.


God bless.