How many sins to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?

JJump:

Well you'd think with all the respect you have for them and their vast knowledge of scripture that you'd get a clue and understand why they disagree with you. Because you're wrong.

 

Boy Amy you just can't help yourself anymore. It's just potshot left and right. Care to explain how that is expressing love to a fellow believer? Or are you going to say that you can speak to me this way because I'm an unbeliever?

By the way I've never discussed it with my friend's dad. He lives in North Carolina and has made it very clear in the past that he doesn't like carrying on conversations with folks that disagree with him. So not sure why I should bother there.

As for my friend I tried to discuss it with him and he refuses to discuss the matter. That ought to sound pretty familiar.

As for my second friend we have discussed it once or twice, but not in any real detail.

I'm just still wondering why you can't answer my questions.

Npetreley finally answered my first question, but I'm going to have to assume that he means Mary was "saved" before Jesus was born, but I bet he's not going to want to answer any more of my questions.

How about it npetreley? So was Mary not in need of the message that Jesus came preaching? If not what was it that she beleived that saved her?

 

Come on npetreley you are smart enough to know the difference between the original question and follow up questions. Going to answer them or not?

 

Well that's what I figured npetreley. You didn't want to answer it three days ago and you're still avoiding the topic. And that's because your whole theology blows up when you can't prove that the folks in the gospels were spiritually dead.

And because the reality is that they were spiritually blind, NOT dead that means that your conclusion that the gospel of the kingdom preached by Christ is the same thing as the gospel of grace through faith apart from works is not true at all.

Spiritually alive people don't need the gospel of grace through faith preached to them, because they have already received everlasting life.

But Mary was in the same boat that everyone else was in during that time and she was in need of the gospel of the kingdom. Just as John the Baptist was. Going to be awfully hard to prove that John the Baptist was spiritually dead until he heard the gospel of the kingdom preached by Christ.

 

Since 17 pages of this have said nothing about the thread title, and the OP really is not referring to this, either, I will give an answer to the title.

But it is about a whole package, not just one Tootsie Roll® Pop.

Just one sin!

Gluttony!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

This should clear things up:

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Since Jesus was teaching Jews, He makes it clear that that even they needed a Savior and NNE could see the Father without Him.

There is no doubt He is referring to eternal salvation.

 

Okay Amy let's back up a bit. Do you believe Mary was saved (possessed everlasting life) before Jesus was born?

Let's start at the beginning and move forward.

 

Only if she believed God's promise of sending a Savior. Just as Abraham believed God and was declared righteous.

Contrast Abraham's faith to that of the Pharisees and you will see that not all of Israel was saved.
Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

The Pharisees were the perfect example of individuals who did not worship God, but worshiped self. They were not saved.
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Paul made it clear that Jews were not saved just because they were Jews. They may have had the circumcision of the flesh, but they did not have the circumcision of the heart.

Jesus came to the Nation of Israel (His own) but they did not receive Him. There have always been (from Genesis to maps) saved individuals within the Nation, but being born of the flesh (being a Jew) is never what saved the individual. As Jesus said, "you must be born of the Spirit". He even rebuked Nicodemus for not understanding this, being that he was a teacher.

 

Well I'll take that as a yes.

Now well take your next statement, which was:

Here you say Jesus was teaching Jews. Mary was a Jew. So therefore Mary needed what Jesus was preaching.

So what you are now saying by your statements is that while Mary was saved somehow she needed to be saved again. Is that what you believe? Or was Mary not in need of what Jesus was preaching?

 

Read my previous post. I said there have always been saved Jews, but Jesus came to the LOST sheep of Israel. He came to the Nation as a whole, but within that nation there were saved individuals.

And everyone needs a Savior, Mary included. That's what all the OT sacrifices were pointing to.

 

So, does every saved person you know worship God?

 

Uh, what??

 

Amy what you are doing is again defending man's tradition. You see the word "lost" and you are automatically assuming that what is in reference is spiritually dead people, but that's not what it says.

And the reason we know that is not what it is talking about is because the message Jesus came preaching was a national message. Unless the entire nation of Israel accepted His message then the results would not take place.

This tells us that "everyone" in the nation of Israel "needed" this message. Therefore Mary and John the Baptist had to be included in that, but you have already admitted that Mary was "saved" before Jesus was ever born, so this message can not have anything to do with what Mary already possessed.

So despite everything you all have argued against your theology fails right here, because you can't prove or at least haven't to date that Jesus was dealing with spiritually dead folks. And unless you can prove that then your theology is worthless according to the Scritpures.