How much more influence do you think Luther has been than Jesus?

[Alan Gross]

Alan, your writing style is very difficult to follow. I will leave you to the more learned members of this board.

Yeah, I just got one person to basically say, "Luther influenced more people than God", so it is that element of 'style' that I was most interested in.

Thanks.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeah, I just got one person to basically say, "Luther influenced more people than God", so it is that element of 'style' that I was most interested in.

Thanks.

Well, could also say God used Luther to influence those people!

 

[Alan Gross]

Woman there was and is Israel, and God always have had His redeemed, even among the RCC back then, but sent reformation to have the true Gospel rediscovered!

Israel was a goner, by then (1st Century), except the remnant and all of Spiritual Israel.

Yep, I am saying the woman is The Lord's churches.

She was there and fled into the wilderness, from the predecessors of, then the RCC, and then her daughters, until this day.

There is certainly substantial history to show all that very clearly.

.

There is

 

[Yeshua1]

Israel was a goner, by then (1st Century), except the remnant and all of Spiritual Israel.

Yep, I am saying the woman is The Lord's churches.

She was there and fled into the wilderness, from the predecessors of, then the RCC, and then her daughters, until this day.

There is certainly substantial history to show all that very clearly.

.

There is

except John describing the time during antichrist, and right before the second coming there!

 

[Mikey]

Luther was said to be associated with a "Faith alone" phase of wording.

"Works", then, Luther was saying are not to be considered, for Salvation.

The Bible states that; "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8.

However, God Has a lot of verses in The Bible.

This is what I would say:

God and Luther said works are not to be considered for Salvation.

Now, if we define the words
"Faith alone",
as "Faith in Jesus, alone",
as The Way of Salvation,
that will work to define what God Says, as THE WAY GOD SAVES SOULS.

.....

Again, Luther was said to be associated with a
"Faith alone" phase of wording.

"WORKS", then, GOD & Luther was saying are not to considered, for SALVATION, since;

The Bible states that we are
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8.

.....
However, secondly, if we define the words: "Faith alone",

as "Faith in Jesus, alone",
as The Way of Salvation,
and even if we include the words 'grace' and 'gift': as in;

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Ephesians 2:8.

>>>> This will NOT work
to define what God SAYS
as The Way He Saves Souls,

>>>> Unless, the inplication and Spiritual Reality are included with "Faith",

>>>> which are the Preaching of The Gospel,
The Conviction of sin in the lost soul by The Holy Spirit,
and The second portion of The Twin Doctrines of Repentance and Faith, being Repentance,
as Taught in all the other Bible Scriptures.

This was apparent in the comment that may have been deleted.

If: "Faith alone"

... were said to be historical consent, that has never Saved any soul.

If: "Faith alone"

means (the preached word)
and God Wrought Conviction BLESSED of THE NEW BIRTH from ABOVE
with Repentance & Faith alone,
then yes,
God Saves souls that One Way.

Salvation is of The Lord.

Jesus is The Savior.

I hope Luther wasn't influencing the lost World with easy believism, without Repentance, to give historical concent, or even to "pray".

Praying is not Taught in The Bible, as HOW GOD SAVES SOULS, either.

Those other gospels leave lost souls the way they were found.

Faith alone doesn't need to redefined or questioned what it means, it it clear what it means one only needs to look it up. Luther's writings on faith alone can be read to see what he meant. Faith alone does not do away with the need of repentance, or prayer or anything that is biblically taught. It is position that denies (accurately) that (our) works are needed for justification.

Additionally, Trail of Blood is not accurate history but is an attempt to seperate Baptist churches from their "Roman" roots.

 

[Yeshua1]

Faith alone doesn't need to redefined or questioned what it means, it it clear what it means one only needs to look it up. Luther's writings on faith alone can be read to see what he meant. Faith alone does not do away with the need of repentance, or prayer or anything that is biblically taught. It is position that denies (accurately) that (our) works are needed for justification.

Additionally, Trail of Blood is not accurate history but is an attempt to seperate Baptist churches from their "Roman" roots.

Luther and Calvin both were fighting for the truth that a lost sinner must have imputed to us the righteousness of Jesus in order to have us be saved!

 

[Alan Gross]

Well, could also say God used Luther to influence those people!

Well, could also say God used Luther to influence those people!

Yes, and yet the element of "God Called Luther (& I (?) to 'reform Satan's church', so....who needs Jesus, or The Bible, or The Holy Spirit", is a grave mistake.

 

[Alan Gross]

except John describing the time during antichrist, and right before the second coming there!

The New Testament writers were in The End Times, right before The Second Coming.

I don't know of any 'time of The Anti-Christ' apart from the spirit of iniquity that was, also, already working at that time, during The First Century.

 

[Alan Gross]

Luther and Calvin both were fighting for the truth that a lost sinner must have imputed to us the righteousness of Jesus in order to have us be saved!

True.

Perfectly wonderful.

(Persecution of The Believers and The Lord's churches, by them, not so much, too terribly fine.

I don't have a Luther or Calvin soapbox, but I do not see "God Called someone to 'reform' the Catholic church in The Bible, either.

In my days, there have been practically zero references to Luther or Calvin that anyone has made, in churches, Bible College.

Other than, on the board, here, where I have had to say to opponents of 'Calvinism' that "I have more against him than you do".

That said, I will, for the first time ever, begin to look at something they have written, based on you saying, "Luther and Calvin both were fighting for the truth that a lost sinner must have imputed to us the righteousness of Jesus in order to have us be saved!"

John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible)

...

 

[Alan Gross]

Faith alone doesn't need to redefined or questioned what it means, it it clear what it means one only needs to look it up. Luther's writings on faith alone can be read to see what he meant. Faith alone does not do away with the need of repentance, or prayer or anything that is biblically taught. It is position that denies (accurately) that (our) works are needed for justification.

Additionally, Trail of Blood is not accurate history but is an attempt to seperate Baptist churches from their "Roman" roots.

I am saying the woman is The Lord's churches.

She was there and fled into the wilderness, from the predecessors of, then the RCC, and then her daughters, until this day.

There is certainly substantial history to show all that very clearly.

...

On the board, I have listed 20-25 false gospels.

One, is "repeat after me".

A.) You may think you can keep easy believism, by saying 'faith along' doesn't need to be defined(?)

& B.) You may think you can dismiss Jesus and His Promise to His churches, to be "with them, until the end of the age(?)

& C.) You may never study out what the Bible defines as a 'church'.

If you are sure that that is what you want to do.

 

[Alan Gross]

Calvinism is not 'Bible-ism'.

The Bible, God the Father, God the Son, & The Holy Spirit came sometime before he and Luther.

By going by The Bible, instead of starting my learning perspective about Christianity in the 16th-17th Century, puts me at odds with practically everyone on a Baptist Forum.

I'm not sure that needs to be that way.

 

[Dave G]

Would he be said to have more influence than Jesus?

Not in my life he hasn't.
That place is reserved for the Lord.

On the lives of others who follow the teachings of men?
I would say that Luther probably influenced more people in his day than the Lord did in Israel before He went to the cross.

But across the whole of time, I would say that Jesus Christ has more influence than Martin Luther.
God's children are more than can be numbered ( Revelation 7:9 ).

 

[1689Dave]

Greater works? Presently seated with Christ as his body on David's throne in Jerusalem above, ruling the nations with a rod of iron as a full-fledged member of the Kingdom of God?

 

[JonC]

How much more influence do you think Luther has been than Jesus?

Probably a little too much (and this can be said about any such leader). God used him nonetheless.

 

[Reynolds]

"greater works than these shall he do".
John 14:12b

I think that question is completely and totally stupid.

 

[Yeshua1]

The New Testament writers were in The End Times, right before The Second Coming.

I don't know of any 'time of The Anti-Christ' apart from the spirit of iniquity that was, also, already working at that time, during The First Century.

Second Coming still future event!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, and yet the element of "God Called Luther (& I (?) to 'reform Satan's church', so....who needs Jesus, or The Bible, or The Holy Spirit", is a grave mistake.

God still has His own even in Rome, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am saying the woman is The Lord's churches.

She was there and fled into the wilderness, from the predecessors of, then the RCC, and then her daughters, until this day.

There is certainly substantial history to show all that very clearly.

...

On the board, I have listed 20-25 false gospels.

One, is "repeat after me".

A.) You may think you can keep easy believism, by saying 'faith along' doesn't need to be defined(?)

& B.) You may think you can dismiss Jesus and His Promise to His churches, to be "with them, until the end of the age(?)

& C.) You may never study out what the Bible defines as a 'church'.

If you are sure that that is what you want to do.

Woman is Israel, as she gave birth to the Messiah!

 

[Yeshua1]

True.

Perfectly wonderful.

(Persecution of The Believers and The Lord's churches, by them, not so much, too terribly fine.

I don't have a Luther or Calvin soapbox, but I do not see "God Called someone to 'reform' the Catholic church in The Bible, either.

In my days, there have been practically zero references to Luther or Calvin that anyone has made, in churches, Bible College.

Other than, on the board, here, where I have had to say to opponents of 'Calvinism' that "I have more against him than you do".

That said, I will, for the first time ever, begin to look at something they have written, based on you saying, "Luther and Calvin both were fighting for the truth that a lost sinner must have imputed to us the righteousness of Jesus in order to have us be saved!"

John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible)

...

God sent the reformation!

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinism is not 'Bible-ism'.

The Bible, God the Father, God the Son, & The Holy Spirit came sometime before he and Luther.

By going by The Bible, instead of starting my learning perspective about Christianity in the 16th-17th Century, puts me at odds with practically everyone on a Baptist Forum.

I'm not sure that needs to be that way.

Particular Baptists and reformed baptists trace their theology right to the Bible, which was the paujline Justification of the reformation!