How should we respond to the shooting at the H/S shooting in Colorado?

[Eternally Grateful]

Your idea of God is one that is down on His hands and knees begging His creation to love Him, to have a relationship with Him, crying, "Please, or please, let me save you. Please, oh please, love Me. Oh, why won't You love Me? Oh, why, why, why?"

Your idea of God is basically no different than the gods of Greek mythology.

Nope, God is not begging anyone, He is doing what any father would do.

He offers salvation but will not force you to take it.

He did not Beg Israel to allow him to be there God. He offered it to them. It was up to them to chose what they wanted to do

chose today who you will follow

You want a dictator?

 

[JonC]

You did bring Up Grants, I mean Jackson's highly Calvinistic position. Does it matter when a person dies, or is election vs non election all that matters?
I have my C hat on today.

All that matters is one's status in Christ. There will be no Calvinists or Arminians in Heaven. Our understandings in this life will pass away as we will see clearly rather than as through a glass, dimly.

In this life our theology suffers from the finiteness that is the human condition. I suspect this is why we are commanded not to lean on our own understanding.

 

[KenH]

You want a dictator?

Absolutely, if you want to use a human term. Do you want a world that ruled by fallen, corrupted human beings? Do you want your life to be nothing more than a bunch of random acts and controlled by nothing more than a bunch of random acts?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Absolutely, if you want to use a human term. Do you want a world that ruled by fallen, corrupted human beings? Do you want your life to nothing more than a bunch of random acts?

My world is ruled By God

Nothing happens unless he allows it..

But he does not create or force evil.

God is not the author of Evil

those people in that bar who were killed? God did not force the person to shoot him, that person shot him of his own free will.

 

[KenH]

that person shot him of his own free will.

Fallen, corrupt man has no "free will". The idea of "free will" is a concept created by and advocated by those who hate the idea that God is absolutely, totally sovereign; that He is the Potter and they are nothing more than the clay - and they can't do a thing about it despite all their caterwauling.

 

[Van]

My world is ruled By God
Nothing happens unless he allows it..
But he does not create or force evil.
God is not the author of Evil
those people in that bar who were killed? God did not force the person to shoot him, that person shot him of his own free will.

1) God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass.
2) If something adverse happens to a person, say killed by a tornado, from the person's viewpoint the God caused tornado resulted in evil.
3) Our harsh environment, both the result of nature and the wanton acts of people, was caused and allowed by God for His purpose, to facilitate the lost to seek God as a refuge.

I am not fond of the "they got what they deserved" viewpoint, because I rest in the promise I will not get what I deserve.

 

[AustinC]

My world is ruled By God

Nothing happens unless he allows it..

But he does not create or force evil.

God is not the author of Evil

those people in that bar who were killed? God did not force the person to shoot him, that person shot him of his own free will.

This passage is the closest thing we will get to Jesus answer regarding tragic events like what are happening in many places around the nation. The nightclub in Col Springs, the gunman on the UVA football bus, the Walmart shooting just last night, they all are a part of the following passage where God does not tell us who the cause is, but God calls all to repentance.
*Luke 13:1-9*
There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”

 

[Reynolds]

who did he judge? The saved or the lost?

did he go to the sinner when he was here and judge them, and kill them?

the harlot by the law should have been stoned. did he stone her? or did he say let he who has no sin cast the first stone?

The religious leaders. They were lost. He called them "Toumbs filled with dead men's bones, snakes, dogs, sons of Satan". Don't sound "saved" to me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Fallen, corrupt man has no "free will". The idea of "free will" is a concept created by and advocated by those who hate the idea that God is absolutely, totally sovereign; that He is the Potter and they are nothing more than the clay - and they can't do a thing about it despite all their caterwauling.

like I said, you serve a dictator. who is the author of evil and should get the blame for evil

No thank you

 

[Reynolds]

Even this became a C/A debate. @Salty if you were trying to make a point consider it made.

Because everything hinges on soteriology. If you believe in unconditional election, the argument about ",they might have been saved had they lived" is a moot point.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The religious leaders. They were lost. He called them "Toumbs filled with dead men's bones, snakes, dogs, sons of Satan". Don't sound "saved" to me.

yes, religious leaders.

Not the general public'

he ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. and by this love many repented and came to him..

and the religious leaders judged him because he loved those sinners. while the religious leaders judged the prostitutes and tax collectors

who should we be like? the religious leader. or Christ?

 

[Reynolds]

yes, religious leaders.

Not the general public'

he ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. and by this love many repented and came to him..

and the religious leaders judged him because he loved those sinners. while the religious leaders judged the prostitutes and tax collectors

who should we be like? the religious leader. or Christ?

They were lost men and he judged them as such. Made no effort to "convert" them.

 

[AustinC]

like I said, you serve a dictator. who is the author of evil and should get the blame for evil

No thank you

Here's a fun fact: YHWH is a dictator. He is a Sovereign King of all kings and He does as He wills with no one to accuse Him of wrong doing.
Read your response above and see what you are rejecting. It should cause you to tremble that you wrote those words. Be extremely grateful that God is a merciful God because your distain for His Supremacy deserves His immediate response which would end badly for you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They were lost men and he judged them as such. Made no effort to "convert" them.

thats funny, Nicodemus, Saul..

many of them were saved.. He made alot of effort to save them.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Maybe because they didn't have anything to to with the killer?

I don't have anything to with the murderer either, but I don't feel the need to defend myself or have to claim that my words or actions had anything to do with what he did. Since I don't spread venom and contempt for gay or trans people, no one could take my words and act on them to harm others.

Why is it that when someone who is a Christian tweets "They're coming for our children", that is a message of hate that causes this stuff, yet when one of their own advocates tweets "We're coming for your children", that doesn't count?

Both are wrong. I don't have any context for the tweets you cite, but I suspect the second one is either trolling or is impersonating someone on that side.

Don't let yourself fall into the typical rhetoric where something like this happens and automatically everyone is supposed to give up all our beliefs as some kind of virtue signal.

We should certainly give up beliefs that are not in line with the teachings and character of Christ. And we should also embody virtue in all that we do. If we are people who are consistent, no honest person would claim we are insincere about our virtue.

If one hates and condemns sinners, they are out of step with Christ (John 3:16-17).

I bet if you ran a survey on here almost everyone would say that as soon as the gunman was proven to be the one who actually did this thing he should be executed. What in the world else are we supposed to do?

Work to create a culture that does not lead with contempt toward others. "Christians" have an extremely bad reputation that many have earned for us by embracing fear and anger as the primary way of engaging those who differ from us. The whole "culture war" focus of conservative Christendom is complete out of step with the gospel of Jesus. "Christians" are known more for what they are against than what they are for.

Massive corporate repentance is the first thing we should do. Second, we need to sincerely apologize to "sinners" for many, many things. Third, we need to immerse ourselves in an understanding of the gospel, and straighten up our own house before we presume to tell the world how to live.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

This past weekend 5 people were killed and 19 injured at a club in Colorado.

Will there be preachers out there giving a message that these folks got what they deserved for the
sinful lifestyle they are/were living?

Do we only mourn over the deaths of innocent?

Should we be glad, the killer did not go to a church?

Should we Grieve with those who grieve?

Should we ask "Why did God allow this?"

A church near this club had those questions:
Colorado Springs LGBT nightclub was a mile from my church | Voice

So, what is your reaction?

1. There may be preachers preaching that these folks got what they deserved, but those same preachers should ALSO be preaching that the preacher himself did NOT get what he deserved and that Christ saved him. Need to preach both ends.

2. I don't think anyone is totally innocent. Any death that has ever been mourned has been tainted by some sin.

3. I'd rather the killer had been in a Church, then he might have known better

4. We can ask why God "allowed" it. My thought is that instances of these are simply God removing common grace and allowing the total depravity of man to surface. Our thought should then turn to how great God is for His grace stopping this kind of stuff from happening every minute of every day.

5. My reaction is that 5 sinners were killed by another sinner and that all of them will face judgement for their own rebellious acts. For those of us still alive, be thankful for God's grace which saved those of us which believe and tell others that Christ is King.

 

[DaveXR650]

@Baptist Believer . You show exactly what is wrong here. Something like this happens and even outside the fact that it may be that the guy was into that lifestyle himself, the important thing to notice is that there is a tendency for a certain wing of Christianity to automatically go into a mode of lamentation because after all, this somehow has to be our fault. I haven't heard anyone endorse this kind of action, on here or anywhere else - yet if we don't jump into action and signal our virtue enough to satisfy somebody then it's our fault. Good grief.

Just go over to American Conservative and go back through Dreher's blogs. He uses a lot of quotes I'm talking about and lets the philosophers behind the Drag Queen performances explain themselves what they are trying to do. Also, pick up a copy of Carl Trueman's book "The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self" and you will get more of an idea of what's going on here. He points out what you have illustrated - in the modern view, disagreement is showing contempt and hatred. God help us all.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

@Baptist Believer . You show exactly what is wrong here. Something like this happens and even outside the fact that it may be that the guy was into that lifestyle himself, the important thing to notice is that there is a tendency for a certain wing of Christianity to automatically go into a mode of lamentation because after all, this somehow has to be our fault.

I wonder which wing of Christianity that would be...

 

[DaveXR650]

Yup. Especially Russel. I'll tell you something else. If you want to see how compassionate the left is when something happens to someone on the right well keep your eyes open the next few weeks. Hunting season is here or about to start in many states. Someone, somewhere, is going to be in an accident. When you read about it go to the comments and just see how compassionate the left is when they assume it does not involve one of their own.

 

[Reynolds]

thats funny, Nicodemus, Saul..

many of them were saved.. He made alot of effort to save them.

Nicodemus was a seeker. Jesus dealt with Paul in vision, not in person. Paul was devout and sincere, yet misguided.