Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
In fact, I would go so far as to say it would be against Scripture and by definition sin to delay the baptism.
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How soon do you baptize?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Pastors and other leaders have a responsibility to the fellowship to ensure the person being baptized understands the fundamentals of the faith.
Should a person be baptized if they believe they are being obedient to Jesus and that baptism will save them?
Should a child be baptized because their best friend is being baptized?
Let each person be convinced in their own minds.
Thanks for the conversation
peace to you
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Those are red herring arguments. We are talking about a child who has given a profession of faith.
contrast Primitive & 9Marksist, with genuine 1689er & Spurgeon:
Primitive Baptists of the Blue Ridge
"baptism often occurs very late in the life of the Primitive Baptist — perhaps in middle age or even very old age....Some persons have been baptized, ordained as deacons, and then buried in close succession, owing to the late age of baptism."
Ruling by the Elders of Capitol Hill Baptist Church (Mark Dever, headquarters of the 9Marks Center for Church Reform):
"As they assume adult responsibilities (sometime in late high school with driving, employment, non-Christian friends, voting, legality of marriage), then part of this, we would think, would be to declare publicly their allegiance to Christ by baptism....the practice of baptizing pre-teenage children is of recent development (largely early 20th century) and of limited geography (largely limited to the United States, and places where American evangelicals have exercised great influence)."
[last sentence above is a falsehood]
prominent signer of 1689 Confession Benjamin Keach, A Counter-Antidote...Wherein the Baptism of Believers Is Evinced to Be God's Ordinance (1694):
"little Children who do believe in Christ, have an indubitable right to Baptism"
Charles Spurgeon, same, "The Children and Their Hosannas":
"Let the child avow its faith in Christ and, if you have not confessed Him in Baptism, yourself, stand rebuked that a child is ready to obey its Lord while you are not!"
Spurgeon, "High Doctrine and Broad Doctrine":
"The only limit to the way of coming is that they come to Christ....Many young children and young people do this....We have baptized quite a number of boys and girls...I have noticed that there is about the same proportion of very young children as of very old men and women. We have baptized, upon profession of faith, men and women over 80 years of age, about whose conversion we had as firm a conviction as we had about the conversions of the little ones"
Primitive Baptists of the Blue Ridge
"baptism often occurs very late in the life of the Primitive Baptist — perhaps in middle age or even very old age....Some persons have been baptized, ordained as deacons, and then buried in close succession, owing to the late age of baptism."
Ruling by the Elders of Capitol Hill Baptist Church (Mark Dever, headquarters of the 9Marks Center for Church Reform):
"As they assume adult responsibilities (sometime in late high school with driving, employment, non-Christian friends, voting, legality of marriage), then part of this, we would think, would be to declare publicly their allegiance to Christ by baptism....the practice of baptizing pre-teenage children is of recent development (largely early 20th century) and of limited geography (largely limited to the United States, and places where American evangelicals have exercised great influence)."
[last sentence above is a falsehood]
prominent signer of 1689 Confession Benjamin Keach, A Counter-Antidote...Wherein the Baptism of Believers Is Evinced to Be God's Ordinance (1694):
"little Children who do believe in Christ, have an indubitable right to Baptism"
Charles Spurgeon, same, "The Children and Their Hosannas":
"Let the child avow its faith in Christ and, if you have not confessed Him in Baptism, yourself, stand rebuked that a child is ready to obey its Lord while you are not!"
Spurgeon, "High Doctrine and Broad Doctrine":
"The only limit to the way of coming is that they come to Christ....Many young children and young people do this....We have baptized quite a number of boys and girls...I have noticed that there is about the same proportion of very young children as of very old men and women. We have baptized, upon profession of faith, men and women over 80 years of age, about whose conversion we had as firm a conviction as we had about the conversions of the little ones"
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
We are talking about when a church agrees a person has given a genuine profession of faith and is therefore a candidate for baptism.
Pastors and other church leaders have that responsibility.
peace to you
Does not each local Baptist church have autonomy as to when water baptism can be given and under what guidelines though?
Bassoonery
Active Member
I've been hesitating to post since I have nothing but anecdotal comments, but here goes...
I've seen several people abandon the faith quickly even after pre-baptismal counselling. I don't envy pastors their responsibility of accepting a candidate.
I was one of those saved at an age younger than I even remember, but waited about a decade to be baptised because of my crippling shyness. I had been offered a private baptism at home when I was about 5 but declined because I knew that it would defeat the object of making a public declaration. In my background, baptism was required for church membership but it was not required for taking communion.
My grandmother was christened a Methodist but her family soon afterwards became founding members of a Baptist church. She never took baptism again because she believed her christening was sufficient. I think opinion is quite variable on this point.
Where I live now, it grieves me that pretty much every Baptist kid goes through the motions of baptismal preparation, baptism and their first communion by the time they reach 16. It has the advantage of catechising them but it leads to a real problem of nominal membership. Most "born again" testimonies I hear take place long after the person was baptised.
I've seen several people abandon the faith quickly even after pre-baptismal counselling. I don't envy pastors their responsibility of accepting a candidate.
I was one of those saved at an age younger than I even remember, but waited about a decade to be baptised because of my crippling shyness. I had been offered a private baptism at home when I was about 5 but declined because I knew that it would defeat the object of making a public declaration. In my background, baptism was required for church membership but it was not required for taking communion.
My grandmother was christened a Methodist but her family soon afterwards became founding members of a Baptist church. She never took baptism again because she believed her christening was sufficient. I think opinion is quite variable on this point.
Where I live now, it grieves me that pretty much every Baptist kid goes through the motions of baptismal preparation, baptism and their first communion by the time they reach 16. It has the advantage of catechising them but it leads to a real problem of nominal membership. Most "born again" testimonies I hear take place long after the person was baptised.
Adults now saved have to be instructed into what water baptism is really, so we should expect children to have even more need to wait and slow down in order to fully understand this!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Of course. And it does follow Paul’s instructions to do everything in an orderly manner, provide sound instructions concerning the faith and to follow the leadership of the elders.
Again, salvation is not jeopardized either for the candidate or the leaders making the decisions.
If I’m wrong about the issue then I’m sure it won’t be the only issue I fall short on.
Be convinced in your own mind.
peace to you
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
That's my point, if someone gives a profession of faith, it is not the place of the church to deny them baptism even for a second. That's sin.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Where does the Bible teach that they have the authority to delay a baptism? It doesn't.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
So, when people make a profession of faith at your church you rush them immediately to the nearest body of water to be baptized. If you waste “a second” getting them there you are committing a sin?
Is that how it’s done at your church?
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It is inherent in the command to do everything in an orderly manner and provide sound instruction in the faith.
peace to you
Autonomy means that each local Baptist congregation governs itself without any outside human direction, control, or interference. Autonomy, however, is not absolute, and each local Baptist congregation recognizes (in theory, at least) that it is under the control and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and his teachings in his word. We often express that in our statements of faith with some phrasing like “the holy Scriptures are our only rule of faith and practice.”
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I said deny them. In other words telling them they can't be baptized. If there is not a logistical way to do it that second that is not the same thing as I am talking about.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and is definitely reading something into Scripture that is not there. The Bible actually doesn't even say that it is the pastor that governs baptisms or even the church organization. That is not biblical.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
OK great. Delaying baptism is not the same as denying baptism. On that, we agree.
I’m never said we should deny baptism to anyone that’s under conviction of Holy Spirit to be baptized and follows the protocols set by the church for those who are candidates for baptism.
peace to you
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Unnecessarily delaying them outside what is actually prescribed by Scripture is denying them. To say you aren't old enough is denying them. That's not a legitimate delay nor what I am talking about when I say delay and I think you know that.
There is nothing in Scripture that permits a church to tell a person that they are not old enough to be baptized. Period.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
No, one of the most ridiculous things I hear is Christians accusing other Christians of sinning against our Lord Jesus Christ because they disagree on church policies.
The Christians who are convinced they are following sound biblical teaching in regard to baptism shouldn’t be accused of “sinning”.
You can argue they are wrong without accusing them of sinning, which tends to shut down debate and incite hard feelings.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Exactly!! No one is suggesting there be an “unnecessary delay” in baptism beyond what is prescribed in scripture.
We simply disagree on what constitutes a “reasonable delay” and what is prescribed in scripture.
I promise not to accuse you sinning against our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ if you disagree with me.
We both have Christian liberty, scripture, and the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide our decisions.
peace to you