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How then do we really define heresy?

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37818

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Being eternally begotten from the Father does not mean that he was created!
That is the irrational claim. The ordinary meaning of begotten is to be a cause. The special pleading meaning of being eternaly begotten is not valid logically, unless it means the samething as never being begotten to be the eternal Son of God. And then it proves to be an unecesary claim.

My position is the Son of God has always been the Son of God. Not being begotten in any way to be the only-begotten Son of God. My position it is the only Biblical one.
 
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Yeshua1

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That is the irrational claim. The ordinary meaning of begotten is to be a cause. The special pleading meaning of being eternaly begotten is not valid logically, unless it means the samething as never being begotten to be the eternal Son of God. And then it proves to be an unecesary claim.

My position is the Son of God has always been the Son of God. Not being begotten in any way to be the only-begotten Son of God. My position is is the only Biblical one.
Mine is that God the Son was eternally begotten, so does not change Jesus at all using that term!
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Mine is that God the Son was eternally begotten, so does not change Jesus at all using that term!
Your view is without Biblical support. And you seem unable to hear to understand my view. My view is God, the Fatber, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit, they as God are equally uncaused being truly co-eternal being the one self existent [YHWH].
 

37818

Well-Known Member
John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
You do understand "the only begotten" never means "begotten."

μονογενής is not the word γεννάω.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
A young couple moved into a new neighbourhood.
The next morning while they were eating breakfast, the young woman saw her neighbor hanging the washing outside.

“That laundry is not very clean; she doesn’t know how to wash correctly. Perhaps she needs better laundry soap.”
Her husband looked on, remaining silent.

Every time her neighbour hung her washing out to dry, the young woman made the same comments.

A month later, the woman was surprised to see a nice clean wash on the line and said to her husband, “Look, she’s finally learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this?”

The husband replied, “I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows.”

And so it is with life…

What we see when watching others depends on the clarity of the window through which we look.

So don’t be too quick to judge others, especially if your perspective of life is clouded by anger, jealousy, negativity or unfulfilled desires.

“Judging a person does not define who they are. It defines who you are.”

BY Paulo Coelho
 

MB

Well-Known Member
No, it is not heresy. Baptism is an ordinance. Quakers do not baptize and The Salvation Army does not baptize. Dozens of denominations sprinkle infants. The Copts, and others, immerse infants 3 times. And then there is this little problem: Luke 23:43 (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
I agree baptism does not save.
I've missed more than few communions. Still if it wasn't important then why is it even in scripture. Christ gave it to us in remembrance of Him.
MB.
 

Particular

Well-Known Member
I agree baptism does not save.
I've missed more than few communions. Still if it wasn't important then why is it even in scripture. Christ gave it to us in remembrance of Him.
MB.

Why was the Passover meal given? Why did God require circumcision? Why is it even in scripture?
God gave it for remembrance of Him.

God gave it to remember his covenantal promise, which he keeps with his people.
 

church mouse guy

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I agree baptism does not save.
I've missed more than few communions. Still if it wasn't important then why is it even in scripture. Christ gave it to us in remembrance of Him.
MB.

Everything Christian is important but in defining essentials the list is narrowed to key beliefs. Baptism is defined as an ordinance by the SBC.
 

church mouse guy

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You do understand "the only begotten" never means "begotten."

μονογενής is not the word γεννάω.

Why not? I know the JWs tell me Jesus is an angel & thus was made although in John 1:1 of the Watchtower translation they say that the Word was a god.
 

church mouse guy

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You are confusing essential doctrine of Christianity with essential doctrine of a group or sect.

Believers baptism IS an essential to baptist doctrine. To affirm infant baptism IS a departure from accepted or orthodox baptist belief.

In Scripture the Greek word that alludes to heresy refers to sects (not un-Christian). So even here your inventing "biblical meanings" for English words misses the mark.

Words have meanings. It is best to use words in accordance to their meanings rather than invent new meanings.

How am I inventing new meanings? In the SBC baptism is an ordinance. It just is not a doctrine as useful to measure cultic theology. For example, I can dismiss Mormonism on the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, etc. Their baptism is irrelevant because it is not done in the name of the Trinity.

Are you saying that Quakers & Salvationists are going to Hell because they are disobedient on baptism?
 
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church mouse guy

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Actually most cults can be uncovered with a couple of doctrines: the deity of Jesus and the Trinity. For example, the United Pentecostals Church, Jesus Only, might say that Jesus is God but they deny the Trinity. Most cults, however, just say that Jesus was a good teacher and a nice man but He is not God. You can examine the rest of the doctrine for additional mistakes but you know right away by their denial of the deity of Jesus that they are heretical.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Why not? I know the JWs tell me Jesus is an angel & thus was made although in John 1:1 of the Watchtower translation they say that the Word was a god.
Well in the 1800's (and some even today) there were Trinitarian Christians who believed the Archangel Michael was the Son of God, the LORD of Hosts. For example, in Zechariah 3:2, ASV, ". . . And Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, . . ." Compare this with Jude 1:9, ". . . Michael the archangel, . . . said, The Lord rebuke thee. . . ." Add to the fact the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society has other issues with there Bible interpretations and translations.
 

Wesley Briggman

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Christian Science, Mormonism, & Jehovah's Witnesses. How many people they have led to hell!

Without the intervention of God to change their destiny, they were going to hell without the help of false teachers.

Satan uses such institutions to give a false sense of security to these lost souls.

However, these are the small fish in Satan's frying pan. The big fish is the Roman Catholic Church, with some smaller (compared to the RCC) Protestant groups thrown in. For instance, having grownup in a Lutheran family, going through catechism, being an alter-boy, I was never told I needed to accept Christ as my savior.
 
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