How then do we really define heresy?

[37818]

Eternally Begotten, generated!

False. The written word of God teaches no such lie.

 

[Yeshua1]

False. The Word was God.

Being eternally begotten from the Father does not mean that he was created!

 

[Yeshua1]

False. The written word of God teaches no such lie.

Think the Holy Spirit approved it in John 3:16!

 

[37818]

The Word is the sole cause of all caused things, John 1:2-3. This would include His own incarnation, John 1:14.

". . . All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . . And the Word was made flesh, . . ."

 

[Yeshua1]

The Word is the sole cause of all caused things, John 1:2-3. This would include His own incarnation, John 1:14.

". . . All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . . And the Word was made flesh, . . ."

Him being begotten would not negate any of that though!

 

[37818]

Think the Holy Spirit approved it in John 3:16!

Yes. The Greek, translated in English "only begotten" (based from the Latin interpretation), is a compound of two Greek words which by themselves mean, "only" and "made."

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. The Greek, translated in English "only begotten" (based from the Latin interpretation), is a compound of two Greek words which by themselves mean, "only" and "made."

Begotten is attested to by many Greek scholars though, correct?

 

[37818]

Him being begotten would not negate any of that though!

Irreleavant since the Word was God, the Uncaused Cause. YHWH.

 

[Yeshua1]

Irreleavant since the Word was God, the Uncaused Cause. YHWH.

being begotten would also mean was very God!

 

[37818]

Begotten is attested to by many Greek scholars though, correct?

Then why is it often now translated "only?"

 

[37818]

being begotten would also mean was very God!

Arius and followers did not think so. That is why the Nicene Creed had to qualify with the words "not made."

 

[Yeshua1]

Then why is it often now translated "only?"

Not that many translation do that, do they?

 

[Yeshua1]

Arius and followers did not think so. That is why the Nicene Creed had to qualify with the words "not made."

John did not see it as making Jesus any less than very God!

 

[church mouse guy]

No. I believe that words have meaning and you are confused about the meaning of "heresy".

Herese does not mean a departure from Christ. Within Christian faith there are several groups which hold different theological positions as a whole. Baptists are not the only group who are saved.

You are foisting off on me a position that I never claimed and in fact spoke against above. I said that heresy was a departure from essential doctrines. You yourself are trying to make baptism, an ordinance in the SBC, into an essential doctrine, but I have asked you if you really think that people go to hell for not being baptized?

 

[church mouse guy]

Not essential.Christ said; ( "do this in remembrance of me" ) Instruction from the Lord may not be important to you. It would be heresy to ignore the instruction of Christ.
MB

No, it is not heresy. Baptism is an ordinance. Quakers do not baptize and The Salvation Army does not baptize. Dozens of denominations sprinkle infants. The Copts, and others, immerse infants 3 times. And then there is this little problem: Luke 23:43 (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[church mouse guy]

I am sorry you feel that way. That was not my intention. The real sore point, for me, is the Nicene Creed false teaching, "the only begotten Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages, . . ." The word of God teaches no such thing. And Arianism, which the creed is suppost to be against is rooted in that false notion. The creed tries to fix this by arguing, "begotten not made." Without the added words "not made" it is Arianism! The only begotten Son of God was not begotten nor made to be the Son. His Sonship has no cause. The only begotten Son is the uncaused Son of God. He is YHWH even as His Father is YHWH. The One YHWH.

John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[JonC]

You are foisting off on me a position that I never claimed and in fact spoke against above. I said that heresy was a departure from essential doctrines. You yourself are trying to make baptism, an ordinance in the SBC, into an essential doctrine, but I have asked you if you really think that people go to hell for not being baptized?

You are confusing essential doctrine of Christianity with essential doctrine of a group or sect.

Believers baptism IS an essential to baptist doctrine. To affirm infant baptism IS a departure from accepted or orthodox baptist belief.

In Scripture the Greek word that alludes to heresy refers to sects (not un-Christian). So even here your inventing "biblical meanings" for English words misses the mark.

Words have meanings. It is best to use words in accordance to their meanings rather than invent new meanings.

 

[JonC]

I am saying that scriptures warns us against heretical doctrines of theology, yes!

Yes. It does. But by definition Christian doctrines that seperate one sect from another are heresies.

Calvinism is a heresy. Not to Christianity as a whole but to Armenian churches. The word can be used to discuss Christianity as a religion, but the word itself can also be used to discuss other divisions as well.

Like I said, words have meaning.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. It does. But by definition Christian doctrines that seperate one sect from another are heresies.

Calvinism is a heresy. Not to Christianity as a whole but to Armenian churches. The word can be used to discuss Christianity as a religion, but the word itself can also be used to discuss other divisions as well.

Like I said, words have meaning.

I am using heresy as defined by the scriptures, and neither Calvinism or non Calvininism would be seen as being heretical theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

You are confusing essential doctrine of Christianity with essential doctrine of a group or sect.

Believers baptism IS an essential to baptist doctrine. To affirm infant baptism IS a departure from accepted or orthodox baptist belief.

In Scripture the Greek word that alludes to heresy refers to sects (not un-Christian). So even here your inventing "biblical meanings" for English words misses the mark.

Words have meanings. It is best to use words in accordance to their meanings rather than invent new meanings.

Heresy in the scriptures means department from what the scriptures ALONE teach is essential doctrines and theology, not what individual church groups see them as being!