Robert Snow
New Member
Correct. Those who choose to believe are the Elect.
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How to Call for a Gospel Response Like a Calvinist
- Thread starter 12strings
- Start date
Correct. Those who choose to believe are the Elect.
glfredrick
New Member
You like logic, right?
Did it ever occur to you that choice in a people equalling the elect is not logical in order at all? To be elect, one must be picked before the event, not after. Sorry, fail on this one.
1. So is it meaningless to obey God even if I don't understand exactly how god works.
2. It is not meaningless if God determined long ago that my prayers would be the means by which something happens. Just like God ordained that I would be alive right now, but if I hadn't eaten any food for the past 30 years, I would be dead. God ordained the means, not just the ends.
:laugh::laugh:well done:thumbs::wavey:
So when Scripture tells us we are chosen THROUGH sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth we should discard that for your interpretation. Also, a president elect was chosen to be president before campaigning and election day. You are correct...fail on this one.
You are talking about the same Charles Spurgeon with no formal education or training, correct?
Yeah...you get it.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Now that was funny
I do not think that is fair. I love Spurgeon and he was greatly used of God.
I have found some of his quotes to be outside of scripture and emotional based ...he is not infallible.....I do agree with his teaching probably 97 % of the time.
Webdog study's the scripture so it is not correct to say he is"uneducated" in theology. Webdog does not claim any false degree or training...
For him to present his views as he does shows he is a bible based person.
i have often opposed webdog...but almost always based on his view of romans 5....he counters with cals follow augustine....
But I think you can remain on the issue without taking a shot at webdog here.
if anything webdog overthinks his theology a bit and does not settle on some verses where he should...but I am hopeful for him..he is far from uneducated theologically....do not forget ..many here come and debate and contend....it is not like we are out in the street trying to witness together to unsaved persons...you might be more than surprised to see some in here presenting the gospel.
I had to walk outside to see if there was a full moon
I had to walk outside to see if there was a full moon
:laugh: Webdog.....I like you and count you a brother in Christ.
Some of your theology...not so much,lol .... but when I oppose you I try to go against what I see as not as biblical as it could be....I am not here to hurt any for whom Jesus died....so I take you at your profession.I think you would get my back[so to speak] if someone posted at my person rather than my view. I think you do consider what is posted.
A person should stay with what he knows until God works in them to improve their understanding.They cannot change what they believe unless the Spirit uses a verse or idea to make them re-think some of these truths.
We all get worked up a bit in here, but the BB will be improved and more helpful to outsiders looking in if we confine our remarks to the issues rather than the persons......we see the difference in what makes a good thread...or a not so good thread based more on the verses discussed rather than the persons.
:laugh: I knew you did not need anyone to speak for you.....but the other day I think that archangel and jbh brought out some issues on how we interact that reminded me and others of why we should be here.
WD...do not get spoiled that I did not throw you under the bus...you know by now that I will still stand for what I understand as true...and try to prevail against what I see as defective. ....I will be watching you WD....:wavey:
You left some key words out there...
No, he was elect before he became president. He didn't become president elect when he became president.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Election [i.e., the choosing] of one is not rejection of the rest, but ultimately for their benefit. It is as if a group of trapped cave explorers choose one of their number to squeeze through a narrow flooded passage to get out to the surface and call for help. The point of the choice is not so that she alone gets saved, but that she is able to bring help and equipment to ensure the rest get rescued. “Election” in such a case is an instrumental choice of one for the sake of many.
In the same way, God’s election of Israel is instrumental in God’s mission for all nations. Election needs to be seen as a doctrine of mission, not a calculus for the arithmetic of salvation. If we are to speak of being chosen, of being among God’s elect, it is to say that, like Abraham, we are chosen for the sake of God’s plan that the nations of the world come to enjoy the blessing of Abraham (which is exactly how Paul describes the effect of God’s redemption of Israel through Christ in Galatians 3:14).
Christopher J H Wright
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
So are you saying that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen by Him because we first chose Him?
The Archangel
Robert Snow
New Member
It depends on the qualifying conditions required to be one of the Elect.
I believe it is those who will respond to God's call to repent and trust in Jesus Christ. He said, Come unto me All Ye that are heavy laden...Mat. 11:28.
Robert Snow
New Member
I'll ask you, Why did God elect these and not others?
By the way, when you laugh as someone and act like a fool, you really shouldn't expect a response.
According to his will (ephesians 1:5)
We also have to remember that those who he has chosen do not deserve to be chosen. They are sinners. They deserve hell. The do not deserve salvation nor the chance to be saved.
and...
We also have to remember that those who he has not chosen do not deserve to have been chosen. They are sinners. They deserve hell. They do not deserve salvation nor the chance to be saved.
Salvation is an act of mercy. It's not something we deserve. If God saved only one, he would be perfect just to send all to hell and save just the one. That one would not deserve heaven.
Why doesn't God just save everyone? He could have. Unless we deny the power of God, God could have saved everyone. Any answer anyone gives on this will show God desiring something more than saving everyone.
Robert Snow
New Member
Since all deserve hell, why does God choose these particular ones and not others?
I say it is because they respond to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and the preaching of His word.
QF.....there were elect people before Israel was a nation....during the national theocracy, there was an elect remnant....and the members of the church are elect also......not just national israel....
Jesus was the elect servant...that ties all people together ...by covenant....
Covenant is the key...Covenant is the heart of the gospel.
it is either a passing over the rest, or an outright rejection of them. Not one non elect person will be saved.....good thing we do not know who they are ...so we preach to all.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Icon, I sense and believe that you have no "prideful arrogance" with regard to the doctrine of election and how those of the reformed persuasion view it, however, it does "appear" that the reformers position on election reduces down to a calculus of salvation. Keep in mind that those who do not share your soteriological conclusions also do not do so with human pride and vanity but with the same degree of humility that I assume you and others "opposing" me do as well. Many of those, similar to me in theology may not be comfortable being identified as synergists, I on the other hand have no qualms and remain convinced that salvation is synergistic.
glfredrick
New Member
You have rather reinterpreted the Scriptures for your own use here.
Can we be sanctified without the presence of God? If not, then I guess that God comes first, which every soteriology that is not heretical stipulates.