How to Call for a Gospel Response Like a Calvinist

[Winman]

Sounding the self humility horn is just a shallow as the implication that those who feel scripture indicates role (response) by man in salvation do so in some fashion of pride or self aggrandizement.

Yeah, that's the funny thing about humility, you can't brag about it. :tongue3:

 

[jbh28]

what did I say that was different in scope or meaning I said we were chosen (for salvation) through (by) sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth.

Salvation is through sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth.

I thought it would be from the foundation of the world (see below)
this is confusing. Since we didnt exist before creation we must be elect not from creation, but upon union with Christ as Scripture says.

Sorry, but the Scriptures clearly teach that God chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). The Bible does not teach that we become elect when we are in union with Christ, but says before the foundation of the world. I thess says "from the beginning." We do not have to exist for God to know us and choose us. God is not limited by our future existence.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Salvation is through sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth.
Sorry, but the Scriptures clearly teach that God chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). The Bible does not teach that we become elect when we are in union with Christ, but says before the foundation of the world. I thess says "from the beginning." We do not have to exist for God to know us and choose us. God is not limited by our future existence.

Ah yes & I will suggest that the doctrines of grace teach that, in salvation, God does for us what we cannot do for ourselves. this is true at every step of the way. Long before we choose for God, the Father chose us in Christ. When we were unable to remove our guilt, the Son died for our sins. And when we would not come to God in faith, The Spirit drew us by His grace. The doctrines of grace thus require the sinner to accept God's sovereignty in salvation.

 

[webdog]

Salvation is through sanctification of the spirit and belief in the truth.

you are being obtuse. Why the semantics game?

Sorry, but the Scriptures clearly teach that God chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). The Bible does not teach that we become elect when we are in union with Christ, but says before the foundation of the world. I thess says "from the beginning." We do not have to exist for God to know us and choose us. God is not limited by our future existence.

you left off "in Him", why? God chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world. When are we in Him? Scripture says by faith.

 

[jbh28]

you are being obtuse. Why the semantics game?
you left off "in Him", why? God chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world. When are we in Him? Scripture says by faith.

No need for comments like this. I'm taking it just as Paul stated. We are 1)chosen for salvation. 2) Salvation by sanctification of the spirit and 3) salvation by belief in the truth.

I stated that "in Christ" in my previous post. I was speaking only of the timing. We are not chosen when we are saved. We are chosen before the foundation of the world. Our election was in Christ. The timing is clearly given as "before the foundation of the world." No other interpretation is possible than "before the foundation of the world. "Before the foundation of the world cannot mean after the foundation of the world.

 

[Herald]

I was recently directed to this article from the Gospel Coalition. I thought it was helpful, though I'm sure it has some things people may take issue with. For the non-cals, it can at least show what one Cal thinks is a way to approach this.

The thread has quickly matured, so I'm responding without having read all the posts. If I am covering ground others have already trod, my sincere apologies.

I take exception to the platitude, "Think like a Calvinist, preach like an Arminian." The great Calvinist preachers of old, both Baptist and Presbyterian, preached like Calvinists. There is a liberty of sorts when the preacher takes to the pulpit knowing that the saving of sinners is the responsibility of God alone. This liberty is not to be mistaken for an endorsement of weak gospel preaching. On the contrary; this sort of liberty allows the preacher to deliver the Gospel in power and without compromise. Without the preaching of the Gospel there is no other source the sinner can turn to for salvation.

Romans 10:14-15 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

It is a fallacy to even entertain the notion that Calvinist preaching is short on appealing to the sinner to come to Christ. Calvinists do not possess perfect knowledge. God has not revealed to them who is elect. The sum total of the elect is a mystery, but be assured that God knows all of them by name. Since the Calvinist knows that God calls His elect through the preaching of the Gospel, it is a sad Calvinist preacher who would proclaim anything but the Gospel, and that with power and clarity.

 

[12strings]

"Think like a Calvinist. Preach like an Arminian."

That is how one preaching professor taught his students to call people to faith in a sermon. He couldn't reconcile a theological system that embraces God's sovereignty in salvation with a plea for sinful people to change. Ultimately, this prof thought Calvinism makes sense biblically and logically, but not practically.

I take exception to the platitude, "Think like a Calvinist, preach like an Arminian." .

I think the author himself takes exception to that statement, and goes on to explain why he disagrees with it.

I believe that The author would say calvinism makes sense both biblically and practically.

 

[Winman]

No need for comments like this. I'm taking it just as Paul stated. We are 1)chosen for salvation. 2) Salvation by sanctification of the spirit and 3) salvation by belief in the truth.

I stated that "in Christ" in my previous post. I was speaking only of the timing. We are not chosen when we are saved. We are chosen before the foundation of the world. Our election was in Christ. The timing is clearly given as "before the foundation of the world." No other interpretation is possible than "before the foundation of the world. "Before the foundation of the world cannot mean after the foundation of the world.

False, no one was "in Christ" before the foundation of the world.

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul was not "in Christ" until he believed on Jesus.

Then how were we chosen "in Christ" before the foundation of the world? FOREKNOWLEDGE. God in his foreknowledge saw that Paul would believe on Jesus and chose him.

The scriptures say we are elect according to the foreknowledge of the Father. The scriptures say we are chosen through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. So it is obvious God could foresee this future faith and this is the basis of his election.

But no one is "in Christ" until they believe, Rom 16:7 proves that.

 

[Herald]

I think the author himself takes exception to that statement, and goes on to explain why he disagrees with it.

I believe that The author would say calvinism makes sense both biblically and practically.

I'm guilty of not reading the article completely. My apologies.

 

[glfredrick]

The thread has quickly matured, so I'm responding without having read all the posts. If I am covering ground others have already trod, my sincere apologies.

I take exception to the platitude, "Think like a Calvinist, preach like an Arminian." The great Calvinist preachers of old, both Baptist and Presbyterian, preached like Calvinists. There is a liberty of sorts when the preacher takes to the pulpit knowing that the saving of sinners is the responsibility of God alone. This liberty is not to be mistaken for an endorsement of weak gospel preaching. On the contrary; this sort of liberty allows the preacher to deliver the Gospel in power and without compromise. Without the preaching of the Gospel there is no other source the sinner can turn to for salvation.

Romans 10:14-15 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

It is a fallacy to even entertain the notion that Calvinist preaching is short on appealing to the sinner to come to Christ. Calvinists do not possess perfect knowledge. God has not revealed to them who is elect. The sum total of the elect is a mystery, but be assured that God knows all of them by name. Since the Calvinist knows that God calls His elect through the preaching of the Gospel, it is a sad Calvinist preacher who would proclaim anything but the Gospel, and that with power and clarity.

Well said and bears repeating!

I preached a very "Calvinistic" message at a church yesterday in view of a call. It appears that I will be called unanimously as the next pastor of that church. More so, I had two men surrender to prepare for the ministry after my sermon. I will take that any day!

Oh, and my "limited" altar call pointed to God's sovereignty. About 3 sentences in all, along the lines of, "If God is speaking to you, tugging at your heart to respond, then by all means do not hesitate, but come and let us reason together from the Scriptures to verify His leading."

 

[jbh28]

Then how were we chosen "in Christ" before the foundation of the world? FOREKNOWLEDGE. God in his foreknowledge saw that Paul would believe on Jesus and chose him.

Was Paul chosen before the foundation of the world? Yes, even if by foreknowledge as you are using it. Was Paul in Christ before the foundation of the world?

 

[glfredrick]

Was Paul chosen before the foundation of the world? Yes, even if by foreknowledge as you are using it. Was Paul in Christ before the foundation of the world?

There is a fallacy of equivocation going on in the last several posts in this discussion and the parties doing so know it, but think that they can make some "straw" by pressing the point.

I'd suggest a return to the Scriptures to see what they say...