How to deal with Church of Christ accusations against Baptist

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I had rather sing acappella any day of the week than hear a bunch of rock music and all the instruments banging in my ear. A piano is enough providing it is played right. No wonder Spurgeon didn't believe in musical instruments in the church. What i'm about to tell is a true story. Years ago when I was a young man I belonged to a Baptist church that didn't believe in music in the church. This church had been this way for years and Sunday attendance was a hundred people or so, real good for a country church. A majority of the members including me grew dissatisfied with this because other denominations were having Sunday singings and inviting singing groups and we didn't. The church had several meeting over this issue and tempers would flair, feeling got hurt and it resulted in a split in the church. The members that didn't believe in music left and built there own church about a mile up the road. That was in the seventies and to this day there is open wounds that never has healed. The Lord convicted me of my part in this and I went to the ones that left and apologized. I don't attend either one of these churches any more but the one I attend today does have a piano. One more fact about the church that got their way, Right after the other members left, this church voted in a preacher whose wife played the piano. Singings were arranged and all went well for about a couple of years. Soon after that the piano player and her husband the preacher left the church, got a divorce, both are remarried and no member in the church since then has ever had enough talent to play a piano. You cannot work up The Spirit with music like most churches try to today.

Did you see the thread I did on Sacred Harp music...actually it has become vogue in the North & South & in Europe.

Attached is explanation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLnG7vfVOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXymWIeQb1c

 

[Yeshua1]

I’ve wondered the same thing. The primary objection seems to be baptismal regeneration – but if baptism is symbolic rather than a sacrament conveying grace then it seems that those in the CoC would be saved but simply holding on to an incorrect doctrine.

The Duck Dynasty family all profess Christ saved them, but they also add inthe requiremnent to me water baptised..

Is it as simple as if they held to one MUST be water baptism in order to get saved, that is another Gospel?

but that the truth is also that IF they have been saved by Grace of God, that they still might be teaching wrong doctrine, but still saved?

In that case, need to join a good baptist church!

 

[JonC]

ask him if a person refuses to be water baptized, is that person saved by the Cross of Christ or not?

[FONT=&quot]I’m actually not sure how I’d answer that one. Although I don’t believe baptism saves, I do believe that salvation implies a regenerated spirit. I’d have to question the legitimacy of one who is “saved” but then refuses obedience. [/FONT]

 

[JonC]

sorry about the size of the text - something's up with my "edit" button.

 

[Yeshua1]

[FONT=&quot]I’m actually not sure how I’d answer that one. Although I don’t believe baptism saves, I do believe that salvation implies a regenerated spirit. I’d have to question the legitimacy of one who is “saved” but then refuses obedience. [/FONT]

that would be the question that really determines if it is saved by grace alone, threu faith alone though!

A saved person SHOULD be Baptized, but it is NOT required to be saved!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Regarding MUSIC.....here is a Primitive Baptist Church agenda:

Singing
Primitive Baptists believe the most beautiful and only scriptural instrument for use in New Testament worship is the human voice. All singing is conducted a cappella (without instruments). Most Primitive Baptists use modern hymnals with music, suitable for a cappella singing, written in four part harmony. Individuals attend Primitive Baptist singing schools at their discretion or may take music lessons in order to produce the beautiful singing many of our churches are known for.
Most churches assemble at 10:30 on Sunday morning and sing for approximately 30 minutes with songs being selected by both the song leader and members of the congregation

 

[JonC]

Regarding MUSIC.....here is a Primitive Baptist Church agenda:

Singing
Primitive Baptists believe the most beautiful ... instrument for use in New Testament worship is the human voice.

They have obviously never heard mine.

 

[Tom Butler]

ask him if a person refuses to be water baptized, is that person saved by the Cross of Christ or not?

Oh, I know what his answer will be. Not water baptized, not saved.

That's not my question. The question is, is he saved by his repentance and faith, regardless of whether he believes baptism completes it?

 

[salzer mtn]

Oh, I know what his answer will be. Not water baptized, not saved.

That's not my question. The question is, is he saved by his repentance and faith, regardless of whether he believes baptism completes it?

No, because he is not trusting Christ as his salvation.

 

[salzer mtn]

Did you see the thread I did on Sacred Harp music...actually it has become vogue in the North & South & in Europe.

Attached is explanation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLnG7vfVOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXymWIeQb1c

Do they start every song doing the solo fa lo so thing ?

 

[Yeshua1]

Oh, I know what his answer will be. Not water baptized, not saved.

That's not my question. The question is, is he saved by his repentance and faith, regardless of whether he believes baptism completes it?

As a calvinist, would have to answer if he was the elect, yes the Lord saved him despite his bad theology, but would also say that the lord would require him to find another church, hopefully a good baptist one!

Di you know if C of C sees baptism as sealing salvation, as that obedience shows was a genuine faith in Jesus, or do they see it as the catholics do,as washing away their orogianl sin, and regenerating them again?

 

[Ed B]

.....Di you know if C of C sees baptism as sealing salvation, as that obedience shows was a genuine faith in Jesus, or do they see it as the catholics do,as washing away their orogianl sin, and regenerating them again?

For the CoC I know the issue is much more simplistic than doctrines about original sin, etc. They would answer like this:


Mark 16:16 (to be saved -- necessary)
Acts 2:38 (for the remission of sins -- necessary)
Acts 22:16 (to wash away their sins -- necessary)
1 Cor 12:13 (Baptized into One Body named Church of Christ of course - necessary)
Gal 3:27 (Baptized into Christ - necessary)



Because they have in effect codified the New Testement into a "new Law" that must be followed to the letter without much regard for its Old Testement context, if it says to be baptized then of course it is necessary for salvation by default

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They have obviously never heard mine.

Dontworry...we would dround you out:laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do they start every song doing the solo fa lo so thing ?

Thats the warm up.

 

[saturneptune]

I had rather sing acappella any day of the week than hear a bunch of rock music and all the instruments banging in my ear. A piano is enough providing it is played right. No wonder Spurgeon didn't believe in musical instruments in the church. What i'm about to tell is a true story. Years ago when I was a young man I belonged to a Baptist church that didn't believe in music in the church. This church had been this way for years and Sunday attendance was a hundred people or so, real good for a country church. A majority of the members including me grew dissatisfied with this because other denominations were having Sunday singings and inviting singing groups and we didn't. The church had several meeting over this issue and tempers would flair, feeling got hurt and it resulted in a split in the church. The members that didn't believe in music left and built there own church about a mile up the road. That was in the seventies and to this day there is open wounds that never has healed. The Lord convicted me of my part in this and I went to the ones that left and apologized. I don't attend either one of these churches any more but the one I attend today does have a piano. One more fact about the church that got their way, Right after the other members left, this church voted in a preacher whose wife played the piano. Singings were arranged and all went well for about a couple of years. Soon after that the piano player and her husband the preacher left the church, got a divorce, both are remarried and no member in the church since then has ever had enough talent to play a piano. You cannot work up The Spirit with music like most churches try to today.

Country songs about Jesus are at the bottom of the barrel, in particular songs like "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goal Posts of Life" and "Turn the Radio On." In addition, slap happy hillbilly songs like "I'll Fly Away," I'll Meet You in the Morning," and "Down by the River" have about as much Scriptural value as a lottery ticket.

Gospel songs are about as bad. I do not recall the name, but one of the stanzas say we will be looking back at earth as we pass Neptune, Saturn and Mars. What a crock.

It is obvious the Psalms were accompanied by music. The Baptist hymnal is chalked full of solid, spiritual songs. Modern contemporary music can be a deeply moving experience.

In worshiping God in Spirit and Truth, the beat does not matter, the style does not matter, and certainly what you like or dislike does not matter. The content and the heart of the worshipper does.

 

[salzer mtn]

Thats the warm up.

Not to be critical, BUT, I will have to say this; it does have a good sound and I would have to learn the words to the songs they are singing to be too critical or not critical at all. From watching the tapes there seems to be somewhat of a glorifying in the fact that they can sing four part harmony. Or maybe the glorying is in the fact they have beautiful voices, but people have to be careful to glory in the Lord and him alone. If they sing songs that has gospel in them, and I am not talking about songs going to heaven but about Christ and his accomplishments on the cross, then all the better. 1 Cor 1:31 He that Glorieth, let him that Glory in the Lord.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Then fellas, your going to love this....less than 2 minutes & make note of these singers ages, the young are very attracted to this.:love2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STtz7ZhEC6U

 

[Yeshua1]

For the CoC I know the issue is much more simplistic than doctrines about original sin, etc. They would answer like this:


Mark 16:16 (to be saved -- necessary)
Acts 2:38 (for the remission of sins -- necessary)
Acts 22:16 (to wash away their sins -- necessary)
1 Cor 12:13 (Baptized into One Body named Church of Christ of course - necessary)
Gal 3:27 (Baptized into Christ - necessary)



Because they have in effect codified the New Testement into a "new Law" that must be followed to the letter without much regard for its Old Testement context, if it says to be baptized then of course it is necessary for salvation by default

So they would be much as the Oneness folks then?
As oneness hold that one mUST be baptized in the name of jesus only, for remission of sins?

So both do see faith alone/grace alone as not being sufficient?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not to be critical, BUT, I will have to say this; it does have a good sound and I would have to learn the words to the songs they are singing to be too critical or not critical at all. From watching the tapes there seems to be somewhat of a glorifying in the fact that they can sing four part harmony. Or maybe the glorying is in the fact they have beautiful voices, but people have to be careful to glory in the Lord and him alone. If they sing songs that has gospel in them, and I am not talking about songs going to heaven but about Christ and his accomplishments on the cross, then all the better. 1 Cor 1:31 He that Glorieth, let him that Glory in the Lord.

Line out singing is also done...more so in WV & KY... do you know what that is?

 

[salzer mtn]

Line out singing is also done...more so in WV & KY... do you know what that is?

I've heard the term but don't know much about it.