How to defeat the ME heresy

[npetreley]

I believe you know what sin unto death is. If not, read the Bible and see what sins will cause you to miss Heaven, because if you miss Heaven, you sure will meet the second death in the face. I don't know why anyone would act like they don't know, unless they were trying to justify some sin, they knew was deathly wrong, or someone close to them is committing it.

I can't make that connection. I understand why you make the connection, and I admit I may be wrong. But those passages talk about a state of continual sin, not single isolated acts of sin. That's why I think the passages describe unbelievers, not believers.

We had this discussion before. It's the difference between a thief and the person who steals. Both are wrong, obviously, but the theif is in a continual state of stealing. The person who steals, commited an isolated act of sin.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't understand by what authority you and others add "continual"?

 

[Brother Bob]

Skypair;

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
What about:

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Jesus said this.
I believe that as long as we confess our sins

You will confess them for Jesus is going to lay the chastisement rod to you, until you do.

 

[DHK]

Skypair;

You will confess them for Jesus is going to lay the chastisement rod to you, until you do.

1. We are to confess all our sins, not just the Catholic "mortal sins" Bob.
2. Since you can't even define a sin unto death, how would one know how to confess it Your list isn't Biblical, only arbitrary. It is your list not God's list. It is your interpretation not anyone elses. You are in the minority here. Did you ever stop to think that it is God that decides what a sin unto death is, and not you.

 

[skypair]

Rufus, James, HoG, JJ, etc

This deserves a new page:

PUTTING ME-ers ON NOTICE.


Rufus -- "if we willfully sin, there is no more sacrifice but a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall "devour" the adversaries." Heb 10:27 And might I add, devour them in this life on earth --- not in hell.

Rufus -- do you believe there is a "sin unto death?" Do you believe that would be sufficient punishment for the believer-sinner? Do you believe that misery in this life on account of sin is enough "purgatory" to go through and TO BE all that God has intended??

We're talking mostly about spiritual punishment but look at the man in 1Cor 5:1-5 who was cast out of the church/"kingdom." He was "delivered unto Satan," bro! That there seems to be the "kingdom" and the purgatory you are alluding to in your "if you don't obey, you're goin' to hell for 1000 years!" :tonofbricks: No believer is going to hell. And the kingdom they miss is the one we live in right now.

Look y'all, ME'ers. I hate to spoil your party but the "gig is up." Now that it has been shown you what you are referring to, it is your responsibility to "save others... pulling them out of the fire: hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Please stop the "Catholic-like insanity!"

skypair

 

[DHK]

Skypair, if it is offensive to you, then I am sorry. But where error is I am not afraid to expose it and compare it to another false religion's error. I was a Catholic for twenty years. I believed in purgatory, and was taught extensively about it. Likewise I was taught about the different kinds of sins a Catholic could sin--some that could send you to purgatory; others that would send you straight to Hell. Both doctrines are obvioiusly wrong and heresy. Yet there are some here that seem to be imitating Satan's lie in this religion, for whatever reason I don't know. I compare it to a false religion to show that it doesn't come from Biblical Christianity.

 

[skypair]

I don't understand by what authority you and others add "continual"?

Sin, if confessed to God, brings mercy. God doesn't go straight to the "sin unto [physical] death" option (and the subject is not sin unto spiritual death, Bob. That is covered under blasphemy of the Spirit, right?). Like I said, there are at least 3 phases of chastisement for the believer before the sin is unto death.

This is so important, too, because "many sleep and others sick" on account of sin (1Cor 11:30-32. "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world [sin unto death]."

You're basically attacking the notion of "sin unto death" from a strange perspective.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

This is so important, too, because "many sleep and others sick" on account of sin (1Cor 11:30-32. "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world [sin unto death]."

You're basically attacking the notion of "sin unto death" from a strange perspective.

skypair

Fear not man who can destroy the body. Do you think man can dish out the punishment for sin then?

If someone committed adultery and never confessed, so God took his life. He would still have the sin of adultery against him for he had not received forgiveness or repented for it, so your natural death being the answer does not hold water, for the person would be going straight to the lake of fire. What good would a natural death serve? If God let him live, he might repent in time. Unless you are saying by him dying he is paying for his own sin?

DHK; accuses me of believing whatever comes into his mind. I think the Catholic warped his mind so that he went too far the other way. Jesus said there was a different in sin, He said there is a sin not unto death, He said there is a sin unto death, This is what Jesus said, not me and the to say all sin are the same. Baloney,

 

[Hope of Glory]

Doesn't matter. The passage is not allegorical. If it was allegorical, you could make it mean whatever you wanted it to (as you apparently have).

So, the Promised Land is not a picture of anything, eh?

It's just a bunch of people being freed from slavery, going through some bad stuff and finding a new home?

 

[Hope of Glory]

We don't have to because the Spirit in us will love the Lord and others. But let's say you are not living "in the Spirit" (as you apparently assime). Then you are beholden to all the law. So which do you choose?

skypair

It's not a matter of which one you choose in this discussion.

There are some who say that you are righteous, even if you go around murdering people and committing adultery, but no problem! All your sins are already forgiven.

There are others who say that a saved person can't sin, or can't commit some sins. (Works based salvation; backloaded on to make it sound better.)

Both views are wrong.

 

[DHK]

Fear not man who can destroy the body. Do you think man can dish out the punishment for sin then?

If someone committed adultery and never confessed, so God took his life. He would still have the sin of adultery against him for he had not received forgiveness or repented for it, so your natural death being the answer does not hold water, for the person would be going straight to the lake of fire. What good would a natural death serve? If God let him live, he might repent in time. Unless you are saying by him dying he is paying for his own sin?

Your religion has become a religion of works. His sin, even his adultery, is covered by the blood of Jesus. If it isn't then the blood of Jesus is not sufficient to cover all of our sins and you make confession of that sin a "work" that must be done in order to enter into heaven, thus the blood of Christ becomes ineffectual. The blood of Christ is not sufficient to cover those sins. You must do more than to trust in Christ and his work on the cross. That is your belief, and that is what you have been explaining to us. You believe in a religion of works.

DHK; accuses me of believing whatever comes into his mind. I think the Catholic warped his mind so that he went too far the other way. Jesus said there was a different in sin, He said there is a sin not unto death, He said there is a sin unto death, This is what Jesus said, not me and the to say all sin are the same. Baloney,

I draw a parallel Bob. It is the Catholic Church that differentiates between sin, not Jesus. All sin is the same. All sin is abhorrent in God's eyes. What does the Word of God mean in this verse:

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[Brother Bob]

Your religion has become a religion of works. His sin, even his adultery, is covered by the blood of Jesus. If it isn't then the blood of Jesus is not sufficient to cover all of our sins and you make confession of that sin a "work" that must be done in order to enter into heaven, thus the blood of Christ becomes ineffectual. The blood of Christ is not sufficient to cover those sins. You must do more than to trust in Christ and his work on the cross. That is your belief, and that is what you have been explaining to us. You believe in a religion of works.

It would be a "cool" deal for the saved if what you say is true. Please provide me with scripture where your future sins are covered at the cross?

I know absolutely nothing about the Catholics or their religeon, You are the expert on them, not me.

Jesus said there is a sin not unto death, Jesus said there is a sin unto death. If you are so blinded you can't see that Jesus said there is a difference in sin, you just can't be helped.

 

[DHK]

It would be a "cool" deal for the saved if what you say is true. Please provide me with scripture where your future sins are covered at the cross?

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Micah 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,

Romans 4:7-8 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The Lord will not impute sin, any sin unto me.
All my iniquities are forgiven--all means all--past, present and future.
There is no condmentation to them that are in Christ Jesus--none whatsoever.

Is that enough?

 

[Rufus_1611]

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Micah 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,

Romans 4:7-8 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The Lord will not impute sin, any sin unto me.
All my iniquities are forgiven--all means all--past, present and future.
There is no condmentation to them that are in Christ Jesus--none whatsoever.

Is that enough?

There's that truncated Romans 8:1 again...

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." - Romans 8:1​

 

[Brother Bob]

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Micah 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,

Romans 4:7-8 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

These are the sins he forgave when you were born again, now some scripture when you commit adultery after you are saved, as you say you can do.

Jhn 8:11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Simple verse, big meaning.

Jhn 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

How could that be if they were all forgiven, past, present and future.

I have heard this all future sins covered at the cross, since I been on BB. Please provide scripture proof.

 

[David Lamb]

These are the sins he forgave when you were born again, now some scripture when you commit adultery after you are saved, as you say you can do.

Jhn 8:11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Simple verse, big meaning.

1 John 1.8-10 is a passage addressed to believers:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.​

Verse 8 is in the present tense - John doesn't say, "If we said that we had no sin, we deceived ourselves and the truth is not in us."

That's no excuse for the believer sinning, but it shows that there is forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ for all a Christian's sins. On the particular sin of adultery, there is the example of David, who compounded it with "murder by proxy". Yet he confessed those sins in Psalm 51. Were those sins forgiven, or is David in hell?

Yes, Jesus said to the woman, "Go, and sin no more." He did not say, "This is your last chance. If you sin again, you cannot be forgiven."

 

[PastorSBC1303]

How could that be if they were all forgiven, past, present and future.

I have heard this all future sins covered at the cross, since I been on BB. Please provide scripture proof.

Hebrews 10:10, 12, 14 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God...because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."

 

[Hope of Glory]

That's no excuse for the believer sinning, but it shows that there is forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ for all a Christian's sins. On the particular sin of adultery, there is the example of David, who compounded it with "murder by proxy". Yet he confessed those sins in Psalm 51. Were those sins forgiven, or is David in hell?

Amen!

But, we have to be careful about going too far the other way, as many do, and saying, "Well, since his blood is sufficient for all sin, we can do anything we want, with no need to confess, with no accountability for our actions!"

 

[Brother Bob]

Hebrews 10:10, 12, 14 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God...because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

What didn't you get the rest of the verses, especially verse 26! I will get it for you.

What about Romans 8:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." - Romans 8:1

Hbr 10:
12: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13: From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15: Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17: And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18: Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19: Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20: By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21: And having an high priest over the house of God;
22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

It could never be more plain that this scripture is talking about the past sins.

 

[Brother Bob]

1 John 1.8-10 is a passage addressed to believers:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

​

:Verse 8 is in the present tense - John doesn't say, "If we said that we had no sin, we deceived ourselves and the truth is not in us."

(When John says "we", he is referring to them, while he is teaching them they need to be saved if they are not, as verse 7 says. We know John was saved, so he could not of meant himself.)

That's no excuse for the believer sinning, but it shows that there is forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ for all a Christian's sins. On the particular sin of adultery, there is the example of David, who compounded it with "murder by proxy". Yet he confessed those sins in Psalm 51. Were those sins forgiven, or is David in hell?



(I think this is a misuse of these scriptures to say they are saying future sins. This kind of doctrine will cause people to die and go to hell.)
​

Answer David first. All of Israel worshipped idols, had cocumbines you name it, that is why Christ had to come. If David had been good enough then Christ would not of had to come, but He di have to come to even cover David's sins.
​

Now to the rest, your very first verse answers it all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

So, if you are committing adultery or whatever, except a sin which is not unto death, that we can over take a brother in. If you are committing adultery, and say you have fellowship with Him or that your adultery was covered at the cross, you do lie, and practice not the truth and have no fellowship with Him.

I will put your verse 8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(of course John was referring to them he was teaching, and not him self. You can see that by verse 7, for John was saved and walking in the light.)

with verse 1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Maybe you can help me out with this one?

or this one?
Rom 8:14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Will the Spirit of God lead you to commit adultery?