How to defeat the ME heresy

Of course not. Has anyone said otherwise? I certainly didn't, and I definitely don't believe that He would. But Paul not only called himself the chief of sinners, he wrote in Romans 7.19:

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.​

 

I think its a shame some would use that chief of sinners, as if Paul meant he was still committing the most chiefest of sins. What is sad, it is used to show Christians, if they sin, don't worry about it for Paul was the chief of sinners. You won't find me using it.

Until yesterday, Hank Aaron could say " I am the greatest hitter of all time" , even though he did that several years ago.
Paul being chief of sinners, he explains a couple of verses before that. When Paul persecuted the Church of Jesus Christ and Christ was when he was chief of sinners, but found mercy of God.

Paul said, just one verse I can quote plenty, but he said "shall we sin, that Grace may abound, God forbid".
Paul taught people not to sin, He didn't brag, hey, look at me, I am sinning greater than you. Please,

 

Paul did say "What? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid!", but in the next chapter he wrote, "The evil that I would not, that I do."

Paul still sinned. And he was not bragging about sinning when he wrote to Timothy, 'of whom I am chief.' Nor was he saying that he was chief of sinners in the past but no longer was. 'Am' is a present tense word.

Getting back to your, 'Shall we continue in sin,...' Notice it does not say 'shall we continue to sin,' but rather, 'shall we continue in sin'. There is a difference. When one sins and that sin is revealed to be sin in that person, that person should repent of that sin and confess it to God. That is what Paul is speaking of in Romans 6:1

As long as we are in the flesh, there will be temptations to sin, and many will give in to sin in some areas where others will not. Paul, in Romans and 1 Timothy clearly told the reader that he still sinned and '...am the chief.'

 

am is present yesterday with Hank Aaron. You need to read all of Paul writings

Rom 8:1 ¶ [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Paul was talking about when he was under the Law and persecuted the church of God and felt that no one had surpassed him in sin that he committed againd Christ, but obtained mercy.

1 Tim 1
8: But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11: According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
12: And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13: Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14: And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16: Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

13: Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy
16: Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy

Was Paul a hypocrit, teaching them not to sin, while he was the greatest of all. I do not believe such stuff and that kind of doctrine will send a many of a man to hell.

Greek for "am" eimi
Strong's
1510
eimi
eimi
i-mee'
the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was

 

The evil that I would not, that I do. Romans 7:19

 

Sure he had a thorn in the flesh, and so do we. Paul desired to be perfect, of which he couldn't be in this life, for he sought the Lord three time to remove the thorn but the Lord said my Grace is sufficient and for you rtemptations, I will make a WAY for your escape.

I gotta take a nap, never slept a wink last night. I will answer whatever is here when I get up.

 

It is quite evident that Paul taught people in Romans 6 that they were not to continue in sin. It is also obvious that Paul admitted to committing sin in the following chapter.

Does that make him a hypocrite because he taught one thing and did another? NO!

Paul said in Chapter 7 that the evil that he found himself doing was not what he wanted to do... it was not intentional sin. And yet, it was sin nonetheless. Paul gave in to temptations. We are not told what those sins were that he committed after his conversion, only that he did indeed commit sins. So much that he said 'of whom I am chief.'

 

The thorn in the flesh that Paul had was not temptation to sin, Bob. The thorn in the flesh was a messeger of satan to buffet Paul. It was a person who persecuted Paul... more than likely Alexander the Coppersmith.

Just as we are messengers for God, there are others that are messengers for satan in this present world.

 

what did he give in to. He knew his flesh desired one thing and the spirit another, but what did Paul give in to?

What other message would satan send? serve the Lord?

of whom I am chief referred to when he persecuted Christ.
13: Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy
16: Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy

 

buffeting implies a beating, Bob. This messenger was trying to get a message across to Paul that satan was not pleased with his preaching Christ and Him crucified. This messenger literally 'did me much evil,' Paul wrote.

That word evil is translated injury in several versions I own.

I believe the buffeting of Paul was physical, not spiritual. Buffet is translated 'to rap with the fist.' It is not speaking of temptation to sin.

 

It was an infirmity and not a man. Paul when speaking called "it".

It makes no sense whatsoever unless a person was looking for and excuse to sin, to say Paul was still chief of sinners, while teaching everyone else to stop.

If you walk after the flesh you shall die.
But if you through the Spirit, do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (mortify means to bring under subjection)

As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. You think the Spirit of God would led Paul to be chief of sinners?

 

Where did you get that, you just make it up or what. I have never read it.

 

The Spirit of God would lead Paul to be sinless... if anything. But Paul admitted that he did not always follow after the Spirit when he wrote that he did evil. He admitted to being 'chief of sinners.'

As to the infirmities, Paul also went on to include persecutions in that group of things that he would glory in.

Again, buffet, in 2 Corinthians 12:9 means 'to rap with the fist.' Nothing more. This is speaking of physical persecution, not temptation to sin.

 

No, I did not make it up. To 'buffet' means to rap with the fist. Look it up.

A messenger of satan is physical just as a messenger of God is physical.

This was a physical beating Paul was receiving. The messenger was doing Paul much evil.

Just as satan was not pleased with Job's walk in the Old Testament, he was also not pleased with Paul's walk in the New.

 

Satan has evil spirits working for him too.

Show me where or tell me scripture where Paul was getting a physical beating when he complained of this thorn?


messenger
32
aggeloV
aggelos
ang'-el-os
from aggello (probably derived from agw - ago 71; compare 34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:--angel, messenger.

thorn
4647
skoloy
skolops
skol'-ops
perhaps from the base of skeloV - skelos 4628 and optanomai - optanomai 3700; withered at the front, i.e. a point or prickle (figuratively, a bodily annoyance or disability):--thorn.

 

KJV 2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

It was physical, Bob. Paul did not say a messenger was sent to tempt him, but rather to buffet him.

 

the thorn in the flesh was a physical person.

Had Paul said 'a thorn in the flesh to buffet me, then one might misconstrue it to mean a physical malady. But it clarified what that thorn was... a messenger of satan.

You say the messenger was an angel? Ok, let's go with that for a minute. Angels in the Bible always made their presence known to man in the form of, guess what??? ... human beings.

This angel (messenger) was a physical being who was sent to buffet (beat with the fist) Paul.

 

buffet does mean to be hit. but thorn means a point or prick, messenger means an angel. I still believe it was satan trying to get Paul to sin or weaken his faith someway. He got beatings before and he called them beatings.

 

So, if I get scripture that says "sin" you will accept it as one sin? It would have to say "sinner" to be continual, right?

Hey Npet;
Yesterday Hank Aaron could say, I am the greatest hitter in baseball, could he? Even though it was several years ago he did it.