You mean God should take it up with God. Since he is just a puppet saying what God forced him to say.
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How we obtain our faith?, we receive our faith by divine allotment
- Thread starter Scott Downey
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You mean God should take it up with God. Since he is just a puppet saying what God forced him to say.
ad finitum
Active Member
Is it not Calvinist doctrine that leaves this question hanging out there? It's a natural question. What is the answer?
It's your accusation of God that demands God act according to your will.
Do you have a verse that is causing you anxiety?
ad finitum
Active Member
Think about it. In how many passages in the Bible does God lament the lack of faith? How many times does God lay the charge of faithlessness at the feet of His people?
Claiming that faith is the exclusive gift of God casts all these passages into darkness. They are rendered inexplicable.
37818
Well-Known Member
How I read the verse.
What is the gift in Ephesians 2:8 is ". . . saved . . ." and the ". . . that . . ." not of yourselves. The subject of the ". . . gift . . . ."
I am waiting for the verse that causes you anxiety. Please provide it so we can look at what God is declaring.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 so we obtain Faith once we are Born of the Spirit.
How can a man believe in God unless he is born of the Spirit of God first?... He can't!... No way Jose!... Birth first... Then belief!... You don't believe to be saved, you believe because you are saved!... Brother Glen
Btw... How long have I been saying that!... Never mind but lets see what scripture says... It says you had eternal life before you believed!
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
ad finitum
Active Member
So does that mean all the other fruits of the spirit are actually gifts too? So Paul could just as well have said, the gifts of the spirit are, love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc?
ad finitum
Active Member
He just redirects his faith, away from the things in which he formerly directed it, unto God, which he understood in the beginning from what has been made, just like it says in Romans 1.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Spirit Himself is a Gift !
Not only is the Spirit a gift... The Spirit is Christ!... Brother Glen
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Oh I forgot one
Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
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@adfinitum, I am still waiting...
ad finitum
Active Member
Revelation 3:18
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faith is part of a Spiritual Inheritance accompanying the giving of the Spirit. Eph 1:13-14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Thats why Peter says its an allotted Faith 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Again the word obtained lagchanó:
I obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots
Paul alludes to this allotment here also Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Thats why Peter says its an allotted Faith 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Again the word obtained lagchanó:
I obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots
Paul alludes to this allotment here also Rom 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
ad finitum
Active Member
The verse says that the sealing with the Holy Spirit comes after we believe (i.e. faith).
The Greek says literally "to those having obtained a faith equally precious with ours", which gives a different impression.
There is no linkage of ideas between this verse and the others cited because the actual meanings of them are different and the contexts are different. This passage is about the functions of the body which are necessarily unequal in their spiritual demands, God assigning those functions based on capabilities.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I cant make you understand these things friend.
And that causes you anxiety because...
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
~ Revelation 3:15-19
Look at Hebrews 12:3-29.
Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.
God is so very good when he disciplines us. Be anxious if God doesn't discipline. That would make us illegitimate children.
ad finitum
Active Member
"To those having obtained a faith through....."
What is typically quoted is "obtained like precious faith through..." where faith is tacitly plural as in some quantity of it rather than the singular "a faith", as in The Faith.
Is that too subtle a difference? It makes a difference. Jots and tittles, friend.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I can't make you believe the truth.
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