How were we "in him" (Christ) before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4)?

[Particular]

According to your theology you believe God elected people from before the foundation of the world. You can't explain how Paul can say he was put "in Christ" after other people were because your predestination theology can't explain it. Rather than explain it, you claim I am questioning the supremacy of God. That's a cop out.

According to God's word...

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[InTheLight]

According to God's word...

Ephesians 1:4 , even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

 

[Particular]

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Again, you imagine God does his work on human timeline. I can't help you.
It seems you desperately want to be the ruler and decider of your own fate. I dust my sandals off. Go be your own ruler.

 

[InTheLight]

Again, you imagine God does his work on human timeline.

No, I'm not imagining it, I'm quoting the Bible.

It seems you desperately want to be the ruler and decider of your own fate.

And we have our friend strawman again.



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[Particular]

No, I'm not imagining it, I'm quoting the Bible.



And we have our friend strawman again.



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You use scripture with no concept of the fullness of scripture. Instead you are using scripture out of context. For example, what does this verse say to you?

Luke 4:7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just to be clear.......at the moment your not transformed or just pretending to be? where exactly are you at?

I think if I got mind wiped and forced to believe having recieved the full regeneration and enlightened understanding all in one shot. I'd be hopping up and down this is the truth.

You know the MATRIX. They plug a cassette tape into a machine attached to the main character Neo, All the sudden he knows Kung Fu.

Personally that would be all the evidence I need and I would lead with that testimony of events. Even the bible would not be the highest authority it would the the event itself.


Remember I don't have the capacity to understand scriptures nor even do a single GOOD act.

For example the claim is I am incapable to wanting to know the truth, wanting to understand God, I can't even love my own mother.


Where is the freak out story? with someone having nothing to do with christianity go from zero to Calvinism? I'm starting to think most calvinist are made up of christian converts and infiltration of denominations, in other words built to convert Christians.

Tell us about that day. You hate everyone, hate the world, never felt guilty for anything wrong ever committed, your totally depraved. You never looked for God, you never cared for Jesus. and all the sudden POP.

Is the bible going to change mind of events that supposedly happened?

And then if you actually believed that rather then "bet" on it or want to believe it.

Why waste time whining about it with someone God has not enlightened yet?

WE need to start being HONEST with OURSELVES. God shows up pops a switch to make me christian. Your going to hear that from me period don't matter what books say what. 2ndly If God has to do it and no one else did it for me nor i did not do it myself you should be praying to God to fix the rest of humanity, if your not selfish.

Thats what the perfect Calvinist would sound like

I don’t even care what a Calvinists sounds like so why are you fixated on it?

 

[Dave G]

Chosen in him = Found in him; nowhere is this in scripture

Understood from others, when put together with all that the Lord has to say about who are "in Christ".

God's word is not simply a series of "soundbites"...it's a book of letters where everything He has to say about a subject is combined and understood as a composite...not a bunch of "proof texts" that stand alone.

 

[Dave G]

They do not seem to rely on multiple witnesses.

Each and every time the multiple witnesses are cited, you seem to simply ignore them, MB.

I'm not sure why.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Each and every time the multiple witnesses are cited, you seem to simply ignore them, MB.

I'm not sure why.

Perhaps it’s stubbornness

 

[MB]

I didn't make up what God says in scripture. God is Supreme and I, for one, am grateful.

No but you avoid what your afraid doesn't line up with your theology, Why haven't you got an answer? I would think that if Calvinism is true you'd be all over it with a good explanation.
MB

 

[Particular]

No but you avoid what your afraid doesn't line up with your theology, Why haven't you got an answer? I would think that if Calvinism is true you'd be all over it with a good explanation.
MB

A "good explanation" seems to be determined by you (the one who demands to be supreme ruler). I and others have provided scripture after scripture, which you then try to strain a gnat through your "I refuse to believe" lens. I am watching you act like an atheist who is desperate for any loophole to get away from God.
MB, chase after your stumbling block. It's all yours.

 

[MB]

A "good explanation" seems to be determined by you (the one who demands to be supreme ruler). I and others have provided scripture after scripture, which you then try to strain a gnat through your "I refuse to believe" lens. I am watching you act like an atheist who is desperate for any loophole to get away from God.
MB, chase after your stumbling block. It's all yours.

So like a Calvinist to avoid the issue when they have no explanation for those who were in Christ before Paul. Instead of answering my question you try to defame me. Everything that comes from you shows, you do not really know. You must guess what you believe I suppose. What a pitiful way of believing what you can't support. I don't stumble at Calvinism. I'm well aware of it's deceptions.
MB

 

[Particular]

So like a Calvinist to avoid the issue when they have no explanation for those who were in Christ before Paul. Instead of answering my question you try to defame me. Everything that comes from you shows, you do not really know. You must guess what you believe I suppose. What a pitiful way of believing what you can't support. I don't stumble at Calvinism. I'm well aware of it's deceptions.
MB

You have created "Calvinists" as your crutch and obstacle for avoiding what God is saying. I cannot help your unbelief.

 

[InTheLight]

You use scripture with no concept of the fullness of scripture. Instead you are using scripture out of context. For example, what does this verse say to you?

Luke 4:7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

 

[MB]

You have created "Calvinists" as your crutch and obstacle for avoiding what God is saying. I cannot help your unbelief.

You cannot help because you have nothing to offer. Certainly no answers from you.
MB

 

[Particular]

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So...you recognize the problem with confining yourself to a verse without seeing the broader context?

I believe my point has been made.

 

[Particular]

You cannot help because you have nothing to offer. Certainly no answers from you.
MB

As you wish.

 

[InTheLight]

I believe my point has been made.

Oh pretty please, let it be true!