How would you respond to the following atheist objection.

[glfredrick]

Well I thank you for the quick and presumptive judgement. Actually I was not being evasive, I was answering another thread. Yes I'm in a body of Baptists. Some are amazed by what we see God doing, others ignore it, some even claim it's the devil and are praying for those of us that praise God for His miracles. It is done in the church, at church functions, outside the church, at gas stations and in the market place. Good enough?

I sometimes wonder when someone is asked a very simple question then spends several responses but still never really gets to the answer, then is offended that the question is even asked...

You could have said, "Yes, I am part of a baptist congregation," and answered my question. Now, your further resonse above just muddies up the issue even further.

And, for my response to God's supernatural miracle working power, I see GOD doing His work often. I have even been the recipient of some of that work. I also see some people who claim to be the exclusive channels of that power on a fairly regular basis. I have no problems at all with God doing what only God can do. I have a lot of issues with the people who think that they are the channels for God's power because they, for the most part, are not, and further are often decieved and are mis-reading Corinthians, Acts, and other Scriptures given to show us the ways and means of God, starting with their emphasis on the spectactular gifts.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Forgive me. What is it you would like to know glfredrick?

 

[glfredrick]

Based on your many responses above, all of which indicate that you are some form of Christian loner, working apart from a local congregation, I asked if you were united with a local congregation.

That is all.

But now, since you have further obfuscated the issue, I wonder which sort of "Baptist" congregation would hold the same views as you.

 

[plain_n_simple]

"Based on your many responses above, all of which indicate that you are some form of Christian loner, working apart from a local congregation, I asked if you were united with a local congregation."

I am not a loner. Close to 8 of us believe the same.

I am not working apart from the congregation, but in it, and outside it.

I am a member of a local congregation, but attend several local churches for different occasions.


" I wonder which sort of "Baptist" congregation would hold the same views as you."

"Sort"?

Not all in the church agree with the things they see. Some do, some do not, some ignore it.

 

[glfredrick]

"Based on your many responses above, all of which indicate that you are some form of Christian loner, working apart from a local congregation, I asked if you were united with a local congregation."

I am not a loner. Close to 8 of us believe the same.

I am not working apart from the congregation, but in it, and outside it.

I am a member of a local congregation, but attend several local churches for different occasions.


" I wonder which sort of "Baptist" congregation would hold the same views as you."

"Sort"?

Not all in the church agree with the things they see. Some do, some do not, some ignore it.

Thanks... Just about what I expected.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Thanks... Just about what I expected.

You are certainly welcome, God bless.

 

[JesusFan]

"Based on your many responses above, all of which indicate that you are some form of Christian loner, working apart from a local congregation, I asked if you were united with a local congregation."

I am not a loner. Close to 8 of us believe the same.

I am not working apart from the congregation, but in it, and outside it.

I am a member of a local congregation, but attend several local churches for different occasions.


" I wonder which sort of "Baptist" congregation would hold the same views as you."

"Sort"?

Not all in the church agree with the things they see. Some do, some do not, some ignore it.

Does your group hold that those such as a hagin/Copeland/Hinn etc are teachers from the Lord today?

That modern day Apostles/prophets exist?

revelation ongoing today from god?

WHY part of a Baptist church, why not join/form charasmatic assembly?

 

[plain_n_simple]

"Does your group hold that those such as a hagin/Copeland/Hinn etc are teachers from the Lord today?"

I pay little attention to those people, or any on television.

"That modern day Apostles/prophets exist?"

I have not met anyone that claimed to be an apostle, but have heard a few prophetic words from others that came true.

"revelation ongoing today from god?"

Yes, and I have scripture.

"WHY part of a Baptist church, why not join/form charasmatic assembly?"

Because I started attending there awhile back before I saw anything or knew anything about miracles.

I have no desire to leave or form another church.

 

[JesusFan]

"Does your group hold that those such as a hagin/Copeland/Hinn etc are teachers from the Lord today?"

I pay little attention to those people, or any on television.

"That modern day Apostles/prophets exist?"

I have not met anyone that claimed to be an apostle, but have heard a few prophetic words from others that came true.

"revelation ongoing today from god?"

Yes, and I have scripture.

"WHY part of a Baptist church, why not join/form charasmatic assembly?"

Because I started attending there awhile back before I saw anything or knew anything about miracles.

I have no desire to leave or form another church.

what KIND of revelation today from God apart from the Bible?
Is it same authority as the Bible?

 

[plain_n_simple]

"what KIND of revelation today from God apart from the Bible?"

Deeper understanding of what is already in the bible. What is it you are after Jesusfan?

 

[glfredrick]

Several of us are trying to discern your core theological worldview and the doctrines you hold. Why? In large part, you blow in out of the blue and seemingly espouse a view consistent with some teachers who hold a radical view of gifts and miracles. That is not to say that we (and using "we" in any post on Baptist Board is dangerous, so perhaps I should say "I") do not allow for God to do miracles or use the gifts, but rather, as I said above, that some have an aberrant view of the use of those gifts and miracles. More, you seem to indicate that you possess some knowledge of these issues that the rest of us may not. I am sure others may chime in with their take on things...

 

[plain_n_simple]

I can only say that my experiences with God and miracles are true. I can never prove this here. I'm not trying to. God is my witness. I can also say that they line up with scripture, because I believe none of it stopped when the canon was complete, or the last apostle died, or some scripture was not included in the original text.

Believe me when I say I had to really gather myself because I was quite shook when I saw a healing for the first time, the result of a simple prayer. I had to find answers. You would too. I tried to apply the same reasons miracles and gifts are not for today, but it happened and continues to happen. I cannot deny what my eyes have seen. I had to totally revamp my understanding of scripture from scratch, some are too prideful to do that.

Some pastors and preachers feel threatened by it, because if they find out it is true, they feel like they have not been doing thier job. We've talked at great length with some who felt that way after witnessing a healing. They actually needed some healing of the spirit themselves. Not everyone rejoices when a broken arm is healed in front of them.

If you see a toddler with feet that are backwards, turn right around totally restored, and think that it is the devil, you have a serious problem.
If you think God gave that condition to that baby because it is His will, or it is to teach the bby some great lesson, you have a serious problem.
If you think that the parents of this baby are decieved because the gifts are out of date, that is your option.

To continue this you can start another thread, or PM me, this one has went so far off the OP I apoligize.

 

[webdog]

Came across the following objection to theism in general and Christianity in particular.

How can God confine someone to an infinite hell for a finite amount of sin?

I would be interested in how you might "debate" this issue with such a skeptic.

Haven't read through this so forgive me if I'm repeating someone, but I would counter that hell is not infinite, in fact it is part of creation as we are (created for the devil and his angels). It is eternal and every human will exist eternally somewhere. Hell is eternal (has a beginning with no end).

 

[Christos doulos]

Came across the following objection to theism in general and Christianity in particular.

How can God confine someone to an infinite hell for a finite amount of sin?

I would be interested in how you might "debate" this issue with such a skeptic.

Their premise is incorrect. They believe because we are finite in nature then our actions must be finite as well. The severity of the punishment should focus on the offended rather than the offender.

If I lie to my children; I can lose their respect
If I lie to my wife; I could be divorced.
If I lie to my boss; I could be fired
If I lie to the police; I could go to court
If I lie to the judge; I could go to prison
If I lie to a holy inifinte God; I would get a holy infinite punishment

See the pattern? Same offense, but greater the authority; greater the punishment

 

[glfredrick]

I can only say that my experiences with God and miracles are true. I can never prove this here. I'm not trying to. God is my witness. I can also say that they line up with scripture, because I believe none of it stopped when the canon was complete, or the last apostle died, or some scripture was not included in the original text.

Believe me when I say I had to really gather myself because I was quite shook when I saw a healing for the first time, the result of a simple prayer. I had to find answers. You would too. I tried to apply the same reasons miracles and gifts are not for today, but it happened and continues to happen. I cannot deny what my eyes have seen. I had to totally revamp my understanding of scripture from scratch, some are too prideful to do that.

Some pastors and preachers feel threatened by it, because if they find out it is true, they feel like they have not been doing thier job. We've talked at great length with some who felt that way after witnessing a healing. They actually needed some healing of the spirit themselves. Not everyone rejoices when a broken arm is healed in front of them.

If you see a toddler with feet that are backwards, turn right around totally restored, and think that it is the devil, you have a serious problem.
If you think God gave that condition to that baby because it is His will, or it is to teach the bby some great lesson, you have a serious problem.
If you think that the parents of this baby are decieved because the gifts are out of date, that is your option.

To continue this you can start another thread, or PM me, this one has went so far off the OP I apoligize.

Please do start another thread. Not uninterested at all, just not the OP for this thread. And, I do not discount God's actions in any era. I do discount those who make spectacular gifts their primary doctrine. We can talk further about that in another thread.

 

[ckangeltoo]

It is not the horizontal or, (amount of sin-breadth of sin), that merits the infinite eternal judgment. It is the vertical or the offense against the (Authority & Worth) of the one who the sin is against. In the case of Adam and Eve their single sin of the eating of the fruit was an offense to a God who was absolutely worthy of complete obedience. This is a hard thing to understand, because in most people can not conceive of the concept of perfection. God is perfect in all of His ways. He is a God of Love, but He is also a God of perfect justice. A sin against God is an attack on the very Nature of God because His perfect justice requires that a just penalty be given for a the crime committed. The penalty of the crime is to be proportionate to who the offended is.

For example if someone were to walk up to me an randomly spit in my face, there are little to no consequences for such actions. The reason such an offense as spitting in the face of another person would go unpunished is do to the fact that our laws are not perfect and there is an apparent lack of authority to enforce the punishment of such offenses. Anyways, in contrast to spitting in a regular persons face, if a person were to spit in the face of the President of the United States, or even a common police officer, this action would result in an arrest. The reason for the arrest would because the offense it related to the position of authority. Spitting in the face of a police officer is considered assault in most states. It merits a greater penalty, because of the authority and perceived value to society of the one offended.

Our sin, is an offense against God. It is very much like spitting in the face of God. Although conceived from a finite existence, are sins are against an absolutely, Holy, infinite, and eternal God. Therefore, for God to no violate His very nature he MUST judge this sin in relation to the authority and worth of the person offended, which is Him.

A Single Offense an ETERNAL and infinite God who is truly worthy to be loved and obeyed = ETERNAL punishment.

The beautiful of a question like this it really shows the depravity of Mankind's situation without Jesus. Thank the Lord, He loved us. Thank the Lord He sent us his Son. Thank the Lord for His grace. Without His Grace, all that would be left for us is His Justice.