Hundreds Of Questions About The Christian God

[Alan Dale Gross]

RE: God has Infinite Choices, including to Make the Choice to NOT Do ANYTHING

Well, yes. That would be the one of the options of 'without limitations'. Frankly speaking, if I had a choice whether to make me or not, I would have chosen not to make me in the first place, or anything for that matter.

I am sorry you feel this way right now. Hearing that you wish you were not here tells me you carry heavy pain(?)

The one thing I have learned about others who express this degree of hopeless despair is that I have been strongly admonished to "not wait and think someone else is going to reach out for help from a Professional in dealing with Depression of this nature, but to step up, NOW, and be the one to sound the initial needed alert."

I am strapped by the anonymity of the Forum, however, you do not have to carry this alone.

This is almost like more than a Theological issue and yet God Almighty certainly does know and understand you and everything you feel more than you do, yourself, about what you mean by saying if you had been God that you would have never even Created you and given you the life you have, if you were Him, you don't think.

He can Help. He has His Son and the Provision of sinless Eternal Life that Jesus has Accomplished in His death, burial, and RESURRECTION FROM DEATH, ITSELF, AND JESUS CHRIST THE PROMISED MESSIAH OBTAINED EVERLASTING LIFE, for those who are common, everyday, sinners on the Earth, just like all of the rest of us.

I can understand how your Fatalistic(?), Atheistic(?) understanding of life in general could leave anyone feeling hopeless and despondent regarding the questions concerning what purpose there is in it all.

That happens to be the exact plan of the Supernatural Evil, Fallen Angel, Satan himself, who has brought you there.

I HAVE A MESSAGE. JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF THE SOULS OF MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE DONE ALL KINDS OF GYRATIONS IN THEIR HUMAN EXPERIENCE SEEKING A TRANSENDANCE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CREATOR AND ARE GUILTY OF OF ALL MANNER OF SINS JUST LIKE YOU AND I, WHO GOD HAS DELIEVERED SOUL-FIRST INTO THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF HIS TRUTH.

AND THE TRUTH WILL ULTIMATELY SET YOU FREE FROM THE DOMINION OF DARKNESS AND SET YOUR FEET ON A ROCK AND ESTABLISH YOUR GOINGS TOWARD WORSHIPPING THE ONE TRUE AND LIVING CREATOR GOD OF US ALL, WHO IS WORTHY OF ALL OUR BLESSINGS AND PRAISE WE COULD EVER GIVE HIM AND HE IS ACTUALLY ABOVE ANY AND ALL BLESSINGS AND PRAISE WE COULD EVER GIVE HIM.

THAT IS HOW AWESOME THE GOD OF GENUINE CHRISTIANITY IS. OUR GOD IS A GOOD GOD.

Are you weary of this thing called life and been Blessed by God to feel the heavy laden misery of life without God?

The Lord God, Jesus Christ, said in Matthew 11:28-30;

"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I Will Give you Rest.

29; "Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me;
for I Am Meek and Lowly in Heart: and ye shall find Rest unto your souls."

30; "For My Yoke is Easy, and My Burden is Light."

If you were strapped together in a Ox-like Yoke, with Jesus, He could take Care of all the Heavy Lifting and Work.

Place the Safe-Keeping of your Eternal soul into the Hands of God's Son, Jesus the Savior of man, Who is a Comfort to all.


Please reach out to someone who can help you right now.

You can call or text the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988. It is free, open all day and night, and completely private.

And, it not like you just told me you are going to harm yourself, but either way, you may need to talk to someone.

You can call me at Five 0 Two, Two 8 Four, Nine 2 Five 3, and I will listen, uninterrupted, as long as we hold out.

There is also a Private Message feature here.

Support Options:

• • Call or text 988 to talk with someone.
  • Text HOME to 741741 to chat with the Crisis Text Line.
  • Go to the closest hospital emergency room if you feel unsafe.

If you want to talk about what is making you feel this way, I am here to listen.

I'm sure the Moderator you have already begun a rapport with here on the board, Scarlett O, would gladly and greatly care to assist you in any way she can, also;

Would you like to share what is on your mind?

 

[irmadlad]

I am sorry you feel this way right now. Hearing that you wish you were not here tells me you carry heavy pain(?)

The one thing I have learned about others who express this degree of hopeless despair is that I have been strongly admonished to "not wait and think someone else is going to reach out for help from a Professional in dealing with Depression of this nature, but to step up, NOW, and be the one to sound the initial needed alert."

I am strapped by the anonymity of the Forum, however, you do not have to carry this alone.

This is almost like more than a Theological issue and yet God Almighty certainly does know and understand you and everything you feel more than you do, yourself, about what you mean by saying if you had been God that you would have never even Created you and given you the life you have, if you were Him, you don't think.

He can Help. He has His Son and the Provision of sinless Eternal Life that Jesus has Accomplished in His death, burial, and RESURRECTION FROM DEATH, ITSELF, AND JESUS CHRIST THE PROMISED MESSIAH OBTAINED EVERLASTING LIFE, for those who are common, everyday, sinners on the Earth, just like all of the rest of us.

I can understand how your Fatalistic(?), Atheistic(?) understanding of life in general could leave anyone feeling hopeless and despondent regarding the questions concerning what purpose there is in it all.

That happens to be the exact plan of the Supernatural Evil, Fallen Angel, Satan himself, who has brought you there.

I HAVE A MESSAGE. JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF THE SOULS OF MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE DONE ALL KINDS OF GYRATIONS IN THEIR HUMAN EXPERIENCE SEEKING A TRANSENDANCE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR CREATOR AND ARE GUILTY OF OF ALL MANNER OF SINS JUST LIKE YOU AND I, WHO GOD HAS DELIEVERED SOUL-FIRST INTO THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF HIS TRUTH.

AND THE TRUTH WILL ULTIMATELY SET YOU FREE FROM THE DOMINION OF DARKNESS AND SET YOUR FEET ON A ROCK AND ESTABLISH YOUR GOINGS TOWARD WORSHIPPING THE ONE TRUE AND LIVING CREATOR GOD OF US ALL, WHO IS WORTHY OF ALL OUR BLESSINGS AND PRAISE WE COULD EVER GIVE HIM AND HE IS ACTUALLY ABOVE ANY AND ALL BLESSINGS AND PRAISE WE COULD EVER GIVE HIM.

THAT IS HOW AWESOME THE GOD OF GENUINE CHRISTIANITY IS. OUR GOD IS A GOOD GOD.

Are you weary of this thing called life and been Blessed by God to feel the heavy laden misery of life without God?

The Lord God, Jesus Christ, said in Matthew 11:28-30;

"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I Will Give you Rest.

29; "Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me;
for I Am Meek and Lowly in Heart: and ye shall find Rest unto your souls."

30; "For My Yoke is Easy, and My Burden is Light."

If you were strapped together in a Ox-like Yoke, with Jesus, He could take Care of all the Heavy Lifting and Work.

Place the Safe-Keeping of your Eternal soul into the Hands of God's Son, Jesus the Savior of man, Who is a Comfort to all.


Please reach out to someone who can help you right now.

You can call or text the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988. It is free, open all day and night, and completely private.

And, it not like you just told me you are going to harm yourself, but either way, you may need to talk to someone.

You can call me at Five 0 Two, Two 8 Four, Nine 2 Five 3, and I will listen, uninterrupted, as long as we hold out.

There is also a Private Message feature here.

Support Options:

• • Call or text 988 to talk with someone.
  • Text HOME to 741741 to chat with the Crisis Text Line.
  • Go to the closest hospital emergency room if you feel unsafe.

If you want to talk about what is making you feel this way, I am here to listen.

I'm sure the Moderator you have already begun a rapport with here on the board, Scarlett O, would gladly and greatly care to assist you in any way she can, also;

Would you like to share what is on your mind?

RE: I am sorry you feel this way right now. Hearing that you wish you were not here tells me you carry heavy pain(?)

Alan, I didn't mean to indicate that I was suicidal. I've lived a full, and rather colorful life. Sure it has it's ups and downs. I find much fulfillment in living. However, in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't have created me, or anything for that matter, especially when I already knew the outcome. It's kind of along this line of thought: Right now, especially in America, birth rates (replacement babies) are at a very low point, and there is a specific reason for that. Look around. Would you bring innocent life into all of this that is going on and subject them to the future beyond 2026? I wouldn't. And in talking with a lot of people over the past 5 - 10 years, neither would they. So it's not that I'm suicidal, sorry, I didn't mean to give that impression.

Christianity and I go way back, all the way to my childhood. I was raised in a very religiously oppressive and quite abusive environment. I was once backhanded across the face for asking the very questions I have asked here, tho with less sophistication as a child. I bear the scar on my lip to this day. At the age of barely 16, I walked out the front door, and I never looked back. I had no where to go, and no way to get there, but I knew if I stayed, someone was going to die. This didn't discourage me. It did quite the opposite, and I have been searching for the answers ever since. To ask the questions I was once punished for asking. I don't say this for sympathy, as I don't need sympathy. But I do need answers, and I've found very few. So, when Christians bristle, get aggressive, and offer only rote recitation, it hearkens back to my childhood. The difference being, now I have a voice and I use it quite profusely.

Scarlett O was very accommodating (thank you Scarlett O!), and for the most part, everyone here has. Thank you. Frankly, I never expected to get past page one, as I am usually deemed a heretic by the first couple of responses. If I missed anyone's questions, it wasn't out of avoidance, or inability to answer the question. I've never been shy a day in my life, especially when it comes to some of my favorite topics like religion, politics, music, etc. The type of forum you have here, are usually built on PHP and usually use MySQl as the db, are rather old school, and hard to follow along when there are multiple people with multiple inputs and responses, at least for me. I understand why people use them. They're easy to deploy and XenForo takes care of all the server side maintenance. But I think we did well. So in that regard, thank you sincerely.

I sincerely do appreciate everyone's input and responses, and I must say, you all have been a more accommodating group of those I've had experience within the past. It is not my desire to wear out the patience of this community. I do still have hundreds more questions, and I will keep searching for the truth trifecta. It has to be out there. There can be multiple truths, but there can only be one single truth trifecta.

Thank you all for your time, patience, and hospitality.

 

[Mikoo]

RE: Did write this on your own or did you forget to give credit to your source/s?

This isn't the first time I've had this conversation. Are you indicating something nefarious on my part?

Nope.

RE: Still haven't answered my questions to your statemenst. But I understand why you don't.

I feel very much like I did.

Of course you do. This isn't the first time I've had this type of conversation with those that are 'seeking the truth'. You answered. But not my actual questions to your specific statements. No problem.

 

[irmadlad]

Nope.

Of course you do. This isn't the first time I've had this type of conversation with those that are 'seeking the truth'. You answered. But not my actual questions to your specific statements. No problem.

RE: Nope.

Well, in all honesty, it seemed a very pointed question with an underlying accusation, to not have been asked for a reason.

RE: Of course you do. This isn't the first time I've had this type of conversation with those that are 'seeking the truth'.

I'll be quite honest with you. You really have set a tone to the conversation that I do not wish to follow through with. It's borders on inflammatory. I have no problems slinging mud if that's what you're vying for, but I'd rather keep that off the mainstream of this forum. I answered your question. I apologize if the answer didn't tick any of your boxes.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

RE: God Knows "all" and in this case, "all" means "all",

We're getting somewhere now.

We're all ears for you to Wow us with your bright idea about having come up with something being wrong with God.

RE: but that can never be said to be true, as an across the board, generalization.

Really? So, what part of 'all' are you misunderstanding? When does a God without limitations, who knows all, sees all, is all, created all; seen and unseen, not know all?

"All" can not automatically mean "all without exception" in it's use apart from God and all His Positive Attributes.

And again, God has Self-Imposed various Limits upon Himself, in that for example, God can not lie.

Neither can He Break any of the Ten Commandments, because they Mirror His Holiness, in the same way they Mirror us and that 'all' of us have broken 'all' of them, in the letter or their Spiritual Binding Power.

RE: IT IS A PROPHECY REVEALING TO ADAM WHAT GOD ALREADY KNEW.

Again, we're getting somewhere.

I really doubt it. O.K.? Somewhere(?) similar to "I can't see God, so He doesn't exist" or some equally stringent criteria?

RE: God can do all things, except those things (He) has Determined to Not Do, to Maintain His Perfect Holiness;

My edit for clarity (He). So, God can do all things, but.....( or except to use your word)? If you can do all things and all means all, there is no exception.

Yes, certainly, as above, God CAN NOT SIN, etc.

RE: God Knows all.

I'll just use the first part of that sentence, because the rest borders on inflammatory. We finally agree on something. Infallible knowledge. And if God knows all, then he knows who will go to eternal reward and who will go to eternal damnation. It's very simple. All means all. Not just some. When God opens the Book of Life, do you think the contents of that doccument will be a surprise? Absolutely not, if he He is without limitations. And when did He have this knowledge? An hour before He opens the Book of Life? No, he He has known forever, infinity, eternity. God does not learn sequentially as mankind does.

From: https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/other_studies/why-i-believe-in-predestination.shtml

"Salvation is totally an Act of God. Nothing about us allows us to contribute to salvation in anyway.

"We are dead in the water. Jesus doesn't just throw out a life preserver and say, "Whosoever will, may come." He literally Reaches Out, Drags us into the lifeboat, and Gives us Life. We do not save ourselves with His Help. He Does it all.

"But my objection here was, "doesn't that make God unfair?" Why should He save some and not others?

"Let's go back to Romans 9 again. Verse 19 says,

"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault for who resists His will?" "Fair question!"

"I thought, the first time I read it. And I was devastated by the Apostle Paul's answer.
He says, "On the contrary, who are you who answers back to God?
The thing Molded will not say to the Molder, 'Why did You Make me like this' will it?'"

"And this is why Election is so offensive to us. God says in His Word, that He is God. He Created Heaven and Earth according to His Plan and His Purposes. He has the Right to do Anything He Wishes with everything in Creation. And we do not like that. We don't like a Sovereign God; we want a nice comfortable god that will be there when we need him. We want a god that will answer our prayers and get us out of trouble. We want a god that is like a rich, indulgent uncle who'll give us nice things and let us have a good time. A god like Superman to beat up our enemies, or a Santa Claus to bring us presents. But that is not the God of Scripture.

"The One True God is the Sovereign Lord and King of Heaven and Earth. Everything that He Created was intended to Display His Glory and Majesty (Psa 19:1ff). He is the standard of what is Right and Wrong, Good and Evil. In Him we live and move and have our being. He is the Great "I Am that I Am."

"Paul summarizes our position in Romans 9:22,
"What if God, though Willing to Demonstrate His Wrath and to Make His Power Known,
Endured with much Patience Vessels of Wrath Prepared for Destruction."

"Do you see what Scripture is saying here? God Created some people WHO HE LEFT IN THEIR SINS AND HE "ENDURED" THEM AS THEY BECAME "Vessels of Wrath." Their whole Purpose is to Demonstrate God's Power, Righteousness and Justice. They Prepared THEMSELVES by BEING IN SIN for THEIR OWN Destruction. That's why He LEFT THEM WHERE HE FOUND THEM IN THIS LIFE. IN THEIR SINS AGAINST HIM. GOD DIDN'T MAKE THEM SIN. THEY SINNED BECAUSE THEY WERE SINNERS. THAT RESULTED IN THEM BEING VESSELS OF WRATH, OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AND BY THEIR ACTIONS.

GOD CREATED ALL HUMAN BEINGS WHO ALL BECAME GOD-HATING SINNERS FROM THEIR CONCEPTION IN THE WOMB AND YET PRIOR TO THEM EVER HAVING SINNED, GOD CHOSE, OF HIS OWN GOOD PLEASURE, TO PROVIDE ETERNAL SALVATION FOR SOME THAT GOD THEN GAVE TO JESUS TO ACCOMPLISH SALVATION FOR THEM, SO THAT, AS JESUS SAID IN HIS PRAYER TO GOD THE FATHER;

"Father, I Will that they also, whom Thou hast Given Me, be with Me where I Am;
that they may behold My Glory, which Thou hast Given Me:
because Thou Lovedst Me before the Foundation of the World, in JOHN 17:24.

"Paul goes on to say in verse 23;
"And He did so in order that He might Make Known the Riches of His Glory upon Vessels of Mercy,
which He Prepared Beforehand for Glory, even us".

"Just as God Created some people AND LEFT them in their sins against Him and worthy of His Wrath, He Created others to Demonstrate His Grace, Mercy and Goodness. Notice the illustration please; one lump of clay, Molded by the Maker into two different types of Vessels. Out of the same lump comes one Vessel for Honor, one for Dishonor; one for Glory, one for Destruction. You may not like it, but that's what God said. Deal with it. It's the way things really are.

"But what about the "fairness" issue?

"But think with me for a moment; what does God owe any of us?

"For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" (Rms 3:23).

"All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way" (Isa 53:6).

And finally, "the wages of sin is death" (Rms 6:23).

The only thing that God 'owes' any of us is death AND ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Everything else is a result of God's Grace, Mercy and Patience.

How then can God be called "unjust" or "unfair" if He decides, as is His Sovereign Right, to save some of us?

"Thus, I believe in Predestination because that is what the Bible teaches.

"Just as He Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World" (Eph 1:4)

"He Predestined us to Adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself
according to the Kind Intention of His Will" (Eph 1:5).

"having been Predestined according to His Purpose
Who Works all things after the Counsel of His Will" (Eph 1:11).

"I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it. God is Sovereign. He Will Do what He Will Do.

"His Word is clear that from all Eternity He Created some for salvation, and the rest He Left to Damnation, for their sins.

"Now we cannot see people's hearts and it is not for us to speculate about who belongs in the Elect.

"The Secret Things belong to God." But in His Grace, Mercy and Sovereignty God Can only Do what is Right.

"If what He Does conflicts with what we think is 'right', guess who had better change?

And that is why I believe in Predestination."

Will you find it in your soul one day to Love and Worship that God of Predestination and Election?

He's the God of the Bible.

 

[irmadlad]

We're all ears for you to Wow us with your bright idea about having come up with something being wrong with God.

"All" can not automatically mean "all without exception" in it's use apart from God and all His Positive Attributes.

And again, God has Self-Imposed various Limits upon Himself, in that for example, God can not lie.

Neither can He Break any of the Ten Commandments, because they Mirror His Holiness, in the same way they Mirror us and that 'all' of us have broken 'all' of them, in the letter or their Spiritual Binding Power.

I really doubt it. O.K.? Somewhere(?) similar to "I can't see God, so He doesn't exist" or some equally stringent criteria?

Yes, certainly, as above, God CAN NOT SIN, etc.

From: https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/other_studies/why-i-believe-in-predestination.shtml

"Salvation is totally an Act of God. Nothing about us allows us to contribute to salvation in anyway.

"We are dead in the water. Jesus doesn't just throw out a life preserver and say, "Whosoever will, may come." He literally Reaches Out, Drags us into the lifeboat, and Gives us Life. We do not save ourselves with His Help. He Does it all.

"But my objection here was, "doesn't that make God unfair?" Why should He save some and not others?

"Let's go back to Romans 9 again. Verse 19 says,

"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault for who resists His will?" "Fair question!"

"I thought, the first time I read it. And I was devastated by the Apostle Paul's answer.
He says, "On the contrary, who are you who answers back to God?
The thing Molded will not say to the Molder, 'Why did You Make me like this' will it?'"

"And this is why Election is so offensive to us. God says in His Word, that He is God. He Created Heaven and Earth according to His Plan and His Purposes. He has the Right to do Anything He Wishes with everything in Creation. And we do not like that. We don't like a Sovereign God; we want a nice comfortable god that will be there when we need him. We want a god that will answer our prayers and get us out of trouble. We want a god that is like a rich, indulgent uncle who'll give us nice things and let us have a good time. A god like Superman to beat up our enemies, or a Santa Claus to bring us presents. But that is not the God of Scripture.

"The One True God is the Sovereign Lord and King of Heaven and Earth. Everything that He Created was intended to Display His Glory and Majesty (Psa 19:1ff). He is the standard of what is Right and Wrong, Good and Evil. In Him we live and move and have our being. He is the Great "I Am that I Am."

"Paul summarizes our position in Romans 9:22,
"What if God, though Willing to Demonstrate His Wrath and to Make His Power Known,
Endured with much Patience Vessels of Wrath Prepared for Destruction."

"Do you see what Scripture is saying here? God Created some people WHO HE LEFT IN THEIR SINS AND HE "ENDURED" THEM AS THEY BECAME "Vessels of Wrath." Their whole Purpose is to Demonstrate God's Power, Righteousness and Justice. They Prepared THEMSELVES by BEING IN SIN for THEIR OWN Destruction. That's why He LEFT THEM WHERE HE FOUND THEM IN THIS LIFE. IN THEIR SINS AGAINST HIM. GOD DIDN'T MAKE THEM SIN. THEY SINNED BECAUSE THEY WERE SINNERS. THAT RESULTED IN THEM BEING VESSELS OF WRATH, OF THEIR OWN ACCORD AND BY THEIR ACTIONS.

GOD CREATED ALL HUMAN BEINGS WHO ALL BECAME GOD-HATING SINNERS FROM THEIR CONCEPTION IN THE WOMB AND YET PRIOR TO THEM EVER HAVING SINNED, GOD CHOSE, OF HIS OWN GOOD PLEASURE, TO PROVIDE ETERNAL SALVATION FOR SOME THAT GOD THEN GAVE TO JESUS TO ACCOMPLISH SALVATION FOR THEM, SO THAT, AS JESUS SAID IN HIS PRAYER TO GOD THE FATHER;

"Father, I Will that they also, whom Thou hast Given Me, be with Me where I Am;
that they may behold My Glory, which Thou hast Given Me:
because Thou Lovedst Me before the Foundation of the World, in JOHN 17:24.

"Paul goes on to say in verse 23;
"And He did so in order that He might Make Known the Riches of His Glory upon Vessels of Mercy,
which He Prepared Beforehand for Glory, even us".

"Just as God Created some people AND LEFT them in their sins against Him and worthy of His Wrath, He Created others to Demonstrate His Grace, Mercy and Goodness. Notice the illustration please; one lump of clay, Molded by the Maker into two different types of Vessels. Out of the same lump comes one Vessel for Honor, one for Dishonor; one for Glory, one for Destruction. You may not like it, but that's what God said. Deal with it. It's the way things really are.

"But what about the "fairness" issue?

"But think with me for a moment; what does God owe any of us?

"For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" (Rms 3:23).

"All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way" (Isa 53:6).

And finally, "the wages of sin is death" (Rms 6:23).

The only thing that God 'owes' any of us is death AND ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Everything else is a result of God's Grace, Mercy and Patience.

How then can God be called "unjust" or "unfair" if He decides, as is His Sovereign Right, to save some of us?

"Thus, I believe in Predestination because that is what the Bible teaches.

"Just as He Chose us in Him before the Foundation of the World" (Eph 1:4)

"He Predestined us to Adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself
according to the Kind Intention of His Will" (Eph 1:5).

"having been Predestined according to His Purpose
Who Works all things after the Counsel of His Will" (Eph 1:11).

"I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it. God is Sovereign. He Will Do what He Will Do.

"His Word is clear that from all Eternity He Created some for salvation, and the rest He Left to Damnation, for their sins.

"Now we cannot see people's hearts and it is not for us to speculate about who belongs in the Elect.

"The Secret Things belong to God." But in His Grace, Mercy and Sovereignty God Can only Do what is Right.

"If what He Does conflicts with what we think is 'right', guess who had better change?

And that is why I believe in Predestination."

Will you find it in your soul one day to Love and Worship that God of Predestination and Election?

He's the God of the Bible.

Alan, I know this will sound harsh, but this comment:

RE: We're all ears for you to Wow us with your bright idea about having come up with something being wrong with God.

I didn't read past this point. I have been very cordial and very respectful, here in this forum. I don't need sharp, cutting, sarcastic remarks or comments. Tho I may be 71, I'm not blind either. I don't read all caps comments. That's just a standard internet rule. If you're going for emphasis, there's bold, italics, and underline, like normal net-citizens use. If you'd like to rephrase and reformat, I'll be more than happy to answer your comments. The choice is yours.

Thank you for your time and your comments thus far.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

RE: Was your typing out "Lucifer 2.0" intentional?

Absolutely intentional. The question was: Did Lucifer have free will, and if he did, would God have had to make a Lucifer 2.0 to complete the rest of the Biblical story.

it wasn't Adam's disobedience, it wasn't Lucifer's rebellion. It was a Creator God, who concocted this whole ball of wax. It's not that evil snuck in despite God's plan. It was baked into the plan from before the foundation of the world, by an omniscient Creator who knew exactly what He was building

I SEE YOUR "GOTCHA MOMENT", as a premeditated drive-by shooting-type assault to defame and discredit your Maker by portraying Him as self-contradictory, malevolent, unqualified and immoral, by attempting to charge God with sin and credit God Almighty with being responsible for the disobedience and sin of Adam and the rebellion of Lucifer, just by making your determinant decree of, "it wasn't Adam's disobedience, it wasn't Lucifer's rebellion".

Then, you try to go on using various clichés to pin down God at the scene of the alleged crime by saying, "a Creator God, Who Concocted this whole ball of wax" and "It's not that evil snuck in despite God's Plan", and "It was baked into the Plan from before the foundation of the world", and that, THEREFORE, THE ONLY POSSIBLE CONCLUSION WOULD HAVE TO BE THAT SINCE GOD CREATED ADAM IN A STATE OF INNOCENSE AND LUCIFER AS AN ANGEL BEFORE INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN HIM, THEN IPSO FACTO THE CREATOR GOD CAUSED THEIR SIN AND REBELLION AGAINST HIMSELF, SIMPLY BY VIRTUE OF BEING, "an Omniscient Creator Who Knew exactly what He was Building."

How tacky, really. Silly. Too cheap to talk about. Stupid. Dumb. Idiocy.

Mounting your Hate Crime Against God has only bored Him.

"What is the meaning of Isaiah 45:7?" from: What is the meaning of Isaiah 45:7?

"I Form the light, and Create darkness: I Make Peace, and Create Evil: I the LORD Do all these Things".

"I Form the light;"
“God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light” (Genesis 1:3).
In Isaiah 45:7 the Lord reminds Israel that the same Creative Power that Ignited the First Sunrise is still Active.
• Light stands for everything that reveals, guides, and gives life (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12).
• By claiming Authorship of light, God asserts Absolute Sovereignty over every Good and Perfect Gift (James 1:17).
• Because He Formed the light once, He can Form it again in dark moments, bringing Clarity and Hope to His people (2 Corinthians 4:6).

---

"and create darkness;"
"Darkness is not an independent force; it exists only because God Permits it (Job 12:22).
• He “Forms light” yet also “Creates darkness,” Demonstrating that nothing falls outside His Jurisdiction (Amos 4:13).
• Seasons of darkness—whether literal night or times of Moral confusion—are under His Control (Psalm 139:11-12).
• For believers, that truth steadies the heart: even when we “walk through the valley of the shadow,” the Shepherd Remains in Command (Psalm 23:4)."

---

"I Make Peace"; "I bring Prosperity";
"The word speaks of Wellbeing, Peace, and Blessing—what God Promised Abraham’s offspring (Genesis 12:2-3).
• Every harvest, healed body, restored relationship, or quiet night’s sleep flows from His Generous Hand (Deuteronomy 8:18; Philippians 4:19).
• Prosperity is never random luck; it is purposeful kindness meant to lead us to Gratitude and Obedience (Romans 2:4)."

---

"and Create Evil"; "and create calamity"
"Calamity refers to distressing events God uses for Just and Loving Purposes (Lamentations 3:38).
• He sent the Flood in Noah’s day (Genesis 6-8), the Plagues in Egypt (Exodus 7-12), and the Exile to Babylon (2 Kings 24-25)—each a Righteous Response to sin and a call to Repentance.
• Even painful discipline is Fatherly Love aimed at producing “the Peaceful Fruit of Righteousness” (Hebrews 12:6-11).
• Knowing God Governs Calamity guards us from fear that the Universe is chaotic or that Evil is unchecked (Nahum 1:3)."

---

"I, the LORD, do all these things";
"The verse climaxes with God’s Covenant Name, YHWH, underscoring His Unchanging Character (Exodus 3:14).
• One Hand Orchestrates both light and darkness, Prosperity and Calamity (Psalm 115:3).
• This Unity eliminates dualism; there are not two rival gods, one good and one bad.
The Lord Alone Reigns (Deuteronomy 4:35).
• Because He “Works all things according to the Counsel of His Will” (Ephesians 1:11), His people can trust His Wisdom, rest in His Goodness, and wait for His Ultimate Redemption (Romans 8:28)."

---

summary
"Isaiah 45:7 proclaims a Single, Sovereign Creator Who Governs every facet of Reality. Light and darkness, Blessing and Hardship—each lies under His Purposeful Rule. For the Redeemed, this truth sparks Worship, fuels Trust, and anchors Hope in the God Who does “all these Things” for His Glory and our Ultimate Good."

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

You and I said the same thing. You just made it less generic and tailored the comment to what you believe.

I framed your parody of my beliefs with belief in the One and Only, Creator God, Who you profess you do not know, by having had a Personal Experience of the Salvation of your soul, including the Gospel and the Holy Bible, which are not just self-centered, self-absorbed, selfish flesh filled generic fluff of man-made religions, like you said.

This reads like a Statement of Faith, in which I Trust and believe in with my entire mind, body, and soul, in fact, for the Eternal Salvation of my soul and deliverance from the Dominion of Darkness and the power, penalty, and presence of sin.

"If you do not believe the Way, the Truth, and the Life that God has Provided
through Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection,
and the Book God Wrote and Preserved for us to know His Words to Mankind,

we believe, and the God Who Wrote that Book and Made the Promise of Eternal Salvation in it,

Who we believe in and so fervently Worship by the dictates of our own saved heart and soul,
as His Spirit Bares Witness with our Spirit that we are the saved sons of God,

then you will not go, because You Must Be Born Again,

to the Triune Godhead's and our Eternal Home,

but you will go to the Hell which God Created for the Devil and his Angels in eternal damnation."

You Must Be Born Again.

RE: Do you think God Loves you? He let's you enjoy the rain and the sunshine and your own personal grasping around at what you may sense as being a Mightier Being to Whom you feel Accountable.

Well, He says he does,

God Speaks to us through His Bible and no where does if make any reference to God Loving a lost sinner, other than His Elect, but you say that God Loves you, with your Testimony being that of a lost sinner before an Angry God.

The Bible says God is Angry with the wicked every day.

Psalm 7:11; "God Judgeth the Righteous, and God is Angry with the wicked every day.

12; "If he turn not, He will whet His Sword; He hath Bent His bow, and Made it ready.

13; "He hath also Prepared for him the instruments of death; He Ordaineth His arrows against the Persecutors.

14; "Behold, he travaileth with Iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth Falsehood."

All lost souls are wicked and hate God.

Romans 8:7; "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Since Adam’s Fall, Humanity’s Natural Disposition is turned from God toward self-rule and sinful desire.
This hate-filled hostility is active Rebellion against His Authority, seen in the corruption before the flood and in humanity’s continued rejection of God’s Truth.

Jesus did not even pray for those He Knew would continue in their rebellion against His Sovereign Lordship.

John 17:9; "I Pray for them: I Pray not for the world,
but for them which Thou hast Given Me; for they are Thine."

God Will Laugh at them.

Psalm 2:4; "He that Sitteth in the Heavens shall Laugh:
the Lord shall have them in Derision."

Proverbs 8:36; "But he that sinneth against Me wrongeth his own soul:
all they that hate Me love death."

In the Christian Bible, one of the facets that is God is shown as is a violent being. In one instance He says, "I am an angry God."

You are a sinner in the Hands of an Angry God.

Once again, free will is incompatible with the structure of infallible knowledge. If He knows all, and all means all, and if he knows the beginning from the end, then He knows each and every thing that will happen.

Explain whatever you mean by, "free will is incompatible with the structure of infallible knowledge."

What exactly is supposed to be this "structure of infallible knowledge."

Have you ever learned, to the extent it is possible, anything about the Knowledge of God"?

He is the "Omni", or "all", "Science-Knowing God" Who we speak of as Omniscient.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 1, Chapter 9

RE: Who put that 'Conscience' their in our own head, to speak to us, a Warning?

Well, I'm sure you would say God. However, I do not subscribe to the notion that all morality stems from a God.

We're talking about the Universal Moral Law of the Universe which our inner-science where we know there is a Living, Intelligent Being, Who Knows that we know, we have personally and intimately experienced in our own mind and soul the sense or consciousness of Moral Goodness or blameworthiness of our own own conduct, intentions, or character together with a feeling of obligation to then do right or be good, in Accountability to that Higher Being Speaking to us in our guilty conscience. That Higher Being is Almighty God Who Placed the conscience in the mind and soul of man.

God doesn't ask if anyone did "subscribe to the notion that all morality stems from a God", or not.

God Commands all men to Repent of Breaking and Transgressing His Universal Moral Law, or face Judgment.

Even animals have codes of conduct and moral standards they live by if you'll take the time to observe them.

Have you ever seen a cow with a rifle strapped over its back?

I have moral standards I have lived my life by.

A circle that has a gap in its circumference is not complete, so it is not a circle.

James 2:10; "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Mark 8:36; "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the Whole World, and lose his own soul?"

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Again, these are events in Revelations that were fixed, set in stone by the structure of infallible knowledge.

In the history of literature I found where "the structure of infallible knowledge" has been mentioned before you got hold of it, or it got hold of you; "The structure of infallible knowledge requires a truth condition, a belief condition, and a justification condition so robust that the evidence completely guarantees the proposition is true and logically impossible to be false. In philosophical and theological frameworks, this architecture rests on absolute foundations rather than fallible human inference."

I don't know still what all that means to you.

Do you satisfy its requirements of those three conditions for God, as you are able to think of Him?

Core Components

• • True Proposition (\(P\)): The object or fact must reflect objective reality without error.
  • Absolute Justification: Evidence or grounding must strictly entail truth, meaning you could not possess that exact evidence if \(P\) were false.
  • Indubitability: The structural bond between the reason and the fact leaves no room for skeptical alternatives or doubt. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Structural Frameworks

• • Strong Foundationalism: Relies on self-evident, incorrigible basic beliefs (such as direct awareness of one's own current conscious mental states) that serve as an unshakeable bedrock for any further logical deduction. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Divine or External Anchor: In theological contexts, opinions on The Puritan Board show mixed views, but a traditional consensus holds that infallible knowledge stems from an infallible object—such as divine revelation—rather than fragile human cognitive processes. [1]

• Are you exploring this from a philosophical/epistemological angle (like Descartes or Infallibilism)?
• Or are you looking at a theological framework?

What makes you think there is a connection between this thing and some tremendous theory to came up with.

God does not plan that which does not happen.

Wow. From: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity by John Gill,
Doctrinal Divinity~Book 1, Chapter 9: The Omniscience Of God

2c. God Knows all things whatever, as well as Himself and the creatures: He Knows all things possible to be done, though they are not, nor never will be done; such as have been observed under the preceding attribute, in Chapter 8: The Omnipotence of God; and this Knowledge is what is called by the schoolmen, "Knowledge of Simple Intelligence" of things that are not actually done.

"He Knows what "might" be, and in course, "would" be, should He not Prevent them by the Interposition of His Power and Providence, and which He Determines to do:

"It is in that way that God knew the wickedness and treachery of the men of Keilah to David, and that if he stayed there, they would deliver him up into the hands of Saul, and therefore God gave David notice of it, that he might make his escape from them, and so prevent their giving him up, according to His Determinate Will, #1Sa 23:11,12.

"God Knows the wickedness of some mens' hearts, that they would be guilty of the most shocking crimes, and that without number, if suffered to live, and therefore He takes them away by death;

"and that such is the temper of some, that if they had a large share of riches, they would be so haughty and overbearing, there would be no living by them; and that even some good men, if they had them, would be tempted to abuse them, to their own hurt, and therefore he gives them poverty.

"Moreover, God Knows all things that have been, are, or shall be; and which the schools call, "Knowledge of Vision"; an intuitive view of all actual things; things past, present, and to come; so called, not with respect to God, with Whom nothing is past nor future, but all present; but with respect to us, and our measures of time.

"He knows all former things, from the beginning of the world; and which is a proof of Deity, and such a proof that the idols of the Gentiles cannot give, nor any for them, #Isa 41:22 43:9 all past transactions at the creation, the fall of Adam, and what followed on that; the original of nations, and their settlement in the world; with various other occurrences to be met with only in the Bible, inspired by God; which, as it is the most ancient, so the Truest and Best History in the World:

"nothing that has been can escape the Knowledge of God, nor slip out of His Mind and Memory; oblivion cannot be ascribed to Him; could He forget past facts, or they be lost to Him, how could everything, open or secret, be brought into Account, at the Day of Judgment, as it Will? #Ec 12:14.

"Forgetting the sins of His people, and remembering them no more, are Attributed to God after the manner of men; who, when they forgive one another, do, or should, forget offences.

"God Sees and Knows all things present; all are naked and open to Him, He sees all in one view; all that is done everywhere; as He must, since He is present in all places; and all live, and move, and have their being in Him.

"He Knows all things future, all that will be, because He has Determined they shall be; it is His Will that gives Futurition to them, and therefore He must certainly Know what He Wills shall be: and this is another proof of Deity wanting in heathen idols, #Isa 41:22,23 44:7 46:10.

And this is what is called: "Prescience" or "Foreknowledge".

Also, as I keep repeating, if God knows something with certainty from eternity, it cannot happen otherwise.

The Knowledge of God is not the Cause of 'something.' God's Will Determines the Course of Events in History, whether it is His Positive Will and Determination by Decree, such as Him Seeking and Saving His Elect, or by His Negative Determination and Decrees, such as leaving some lost souls and giving them up to their own sin and its inevitability of Judgment.

Not because of coercion, but because of the logical structure of infallible knowledge.

God Decrees some Realities by a Positive Action and Decrees other Inevitable Realities, by Negatively not Acting.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

If something could turn out differently, then God's foreknowledge would be wrong, and an omniscient God cannot be wrong. Therefore, whatever God knows will happen, and must happen. The future is fixed. Not open, not flexible, not contingent on human choices. Fixed.

A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity by John Gill,
Doctrinal Divinity~Book 1, Chapter 9: The Omniscience Of God

2c. con't;
"Prescience" or "Foreknowledge"; and of which Tertullian {4}, many hundreds of years ago, observed, that there were as many witnesses of it as there are Prophets; and I may add, as there are Prophecies; for all Prophecy is Founded on God's Foreknowledge and Predetermination of things; and of this there are numerous instances;

"as of the Israelites being in a strange land four hundred years, and then coming out with great substance, #Ge 15:13,14

"of their Seventy Years Captivity in Babylon, and Deliverance from thence at the end of that time, #Jer 29:10 with many other things relating to that people, and other nations;

"the Prophecies of Daniel, concerning the four Monarchies;

"the Predictions of the Old Testament, concerning the Incarnation of Christ, His Sufferings, death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Session at God's Right Hand.

"And what is the book of the Revelation but a Prophecy, and so a proof of God's Foreknowledge of Future Events, which should be in the church and world, from the Times of Christ to the End of the World? and this Prescience, or Foreknowledge of God, is not only of the Effects of necessary Causes, which necessarily Will be, unless Prevented by something extraordinary; and of which men themselves may have knowledge; as that things ponderous will fall downwards, and light things move upwards; and that fire put to combustible matter will burn;

"but of things contingent, which, as to their nature, may or may not be, and which even depend upon the wills of men; and which, with respect to Second Causes, are hap and chance. Indeed, with respect to God, there is nothing casual or contingent {5}; nothing comes to pass but what is Decreed by Him, what He has Determined either to Do Himself, or by others, or Suffer to be done, #La 3:37,38 that which is chance to others is none to Him;

"what more a chance matter than a lot? yet though that is cast into the lap, and it is casual to men, how it will turn up, "the whole Disposing of it is of the Lord". #Pr 16:33.

"What more contingent than the imaginations, thoughts, and designs of men, what they will be? and yet these are foreknown before conceived in the mind, #De 31:21 Ps 139:2 or than the voluntary actions of men, yet these are Foreknown and Foretold by the Lord, long before they are done; as the names of persons given them, and what should be done by them; as of Josiah, that he should offer the Priests, and burn the bones of men on the Altar at Bethel, see #1Ki 13:2 2Ki 23:15,16

"and of Cyrus, that he should give orders for the building of the temple, and city of Jerusalem; and let the captive Jews go free without price, #Isa 44:28 45:13 Ezr 1:1-3 all which were predicted of these persons by name, some hundreds of years before they were born:

"how all this is reconcilable with the liberty of man's will, is a difficulty; and therefore objected to the certain Foreknowledge and Decree of God; but whether this difficulty can be removed, or no, the thing is not less certain:

"let it be observed, that God's Decrees do not at all Infringe the Liberty of the will, nor do they put anything in it, nor lay any force upon it; they only imply a necessity of the event, but not of coaction, or force on the will;

"nor do men feel any such force upon them;

"they act as freely, and with the full consent of their will, whether good men or bad men, in what they do, as if there were no Foreknowledge and Determination of them by God;

"good men willingly do what they do, under the influence of Grace, though Foreordained to it by the Lord, #Eph 2:10 Php 2:13 and so do wicked men;

"as Judas in betraying Christ, and the Jews in Crucifying Him; though both were
"according to the Determinate Counsel and Foreknowledge of God", #Lu 22:22 Ac 2:23.

There's a difference between saying the future is fixed - locked in place by the logical structure of infallible knowledge

Whatever. Try to sound intelligent.

and saying God determined it - actively willed and authored every outcome.

6 "Seek ye the LORD while He may be found, call ye upon Him while He is near:

7 "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts:
and let him return unto the LORD, and He will have Mercy upon him;
and to our God, for He Will Abundantly Pardon.

8 "For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, saith the LORD.

9 "For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are My Ways higher than your ways,
and My Thoughts than your thoughts.

10 "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from Heaven, and returneth not thither,
but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 "So shall My Word be that goeth forth out of My Mouth:
it shall not Return unto Me Void, but it shall Accomplish that which I Please,
and it shall Prosper in the thing whereto I Sent it."