Husband of one Wife

[williemakeit]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by williemakeit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AVL1984:
El Guero, you're coming awfully close to libel with the implication that people here do not respect marriage, God or anything else. I don't think the pharisaical approach becomes you, friend.

Don't worry, Brother El-G. It isn't that bad being a Pharisee. </font>[/QUOTE]Now we have a new tactic.

You can't deal with the topic with substance so... play the victim.

Just another implicit admission that you recognize that you don't have a scriptural leg to stand on. </font>[/QUOTE]I hope no one takes me as a victim. I am a victor. I have read and studied the Bible, and applied the truths as I preceive them to my life. As a result, I am a very happy man. I would hope that no one would base their beliefs on anything that you or I may post on a BB, but will study and pray over it for themselves. I can share a testimony, but beyond that, it is up to each to find their own way. Except for what I share on this board, no one here knows me from Adam, and then only that which I choose to share. Some of us probably share more than others about ourselves, and are probably getting better known than others (or should I say more notorious), but not by any actions that anyone has personally observed. Unless, of course, some of us happen to end up at the same conference or something. BTW, if anyone happens to be at the Revival Fires conference April 4 - 8, PM me and I'll let you know how to look me up.

 

[El_Guero]

williemakeit

It is an honor to serve the Lord. Thank God that He chooses to use those of us that are unworthy ...

Thank God He is using you to bring others to Him.

God Bless,

Wayne

 

[Scott J]

I hope no one takes me as a victim. I am a victor. I have read and studied the Bible, and applied the truths as I preceive them to my life. As a result, I am a very happy man. I would hope that no one would base their beliefs on anything that you or I may post on a BB, but will study and pray over it for themselves.

Amen and well said Willie. I apologize if I took you wrong when you called your self a pharisee.

I have no personal grudge against you or any other believer here. I do resent the implication that because I don't agree with a "traditional" interpretation I am somehow a liberal or departing from the Bible.

But there is absolutely nothing personal about it. In fact, several people that I greatly respect take the other side on this issue.

It is specifically because of what the Bible says that I hold the view on this subject that I hold.

 

[williemakeit]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I hope no one takes me as a victim. I am a victor. I have read and studied the Bible, and applied the truths as I preceive them to my life. As a result, I am a very happy man. I would hope that no one would base their beliefs on anything that you or I may post on a BB, but will study and pray over it for themselves.

Amen and well said Willie. I apologize if I took you wrong when you called your self a pharisee.

I have no personal grudge against you or any other believer here. I do resent the implication that because I don't agree with a "traditional" interpretation I am somehow a liberal or departing from the Bible.

But there is absolutely nothing personal about it. In fact, several people that I greatly respect take the other side on this issue.

It is specifically because of what the Bible says that I hold the view on this subject that I hold. </font>[/QUOTE]It's OK. Although I have not been directly referred to as a Pharisee, some have implied that some of my beliefs border on legalism, or that my actions are closely aligned with those of the Pharisees. Of course, contrary to the walk of the Pharisees, my beliefs are imposed on me only, and I do not try to impose them on others. My walk is not for outward appearances, nor do I try to garner favor among men, which was the case for the Pharisees. My personal beliefs have caused some Christians to avoid fellowship with me; however, I have a church where I have great fellowship, and great group of friends. Thanks for your sentiments, and like you, my beliefs are based specifically on what I believe the Bible says.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi El Guero;

You cannot expect those that do not believe in "until death do us part", to stand FOR God. They are unwilling to make a covenant for marriage. They misinterpret His Word. They take your words and my words out of context. Why should we expect them to respect God when they do not respect people. Why would we expect them to respect people when they do not respect God.

Well you know, I just love it when I get ridiculed for holding on to the truth of scripture. The more ridicule the greater the reward. I can only hope that any young person would sincerely seek the advice of God before taking such an adventure.
I'm not surprized that Larry doesn't understand Love that we can Love or Hate anyone we want. When we Love a woman enough to marry her. Falling out of Love is not an excuse, because we stop Loving because we want to. Usually because we never really Loved in the first place. How can we care about someone enough to die for them, and not care the next day? At least I know God loves me and His Love is real. I wonder about those who have a problem understanding it. 1st. Cor. 13 tells what Love is
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi AVL1984;

Would love to see your statistics on this, Mike.

It's not statistics it's fact. That Love is the main reason for divorce. Not adultry.
Do you still not understand what I'm saying. If we trully love the one who has committed adultry we will forgive them God does why can't we all forgive. Those who will not forgive will not be forgiven.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Friend,

If you choose to cheapen marriage, then do so.

Just do not expect me (or others) to endorse your choice. God doesn't, and I won't.

I don't cheapen marriage, and your implication is uncalled for. I've been married for nearly 21 years to the same woman...my ONLY wife...thank you very much. Now grow up.

 

[AVL1984]

ILUVLIGHT, you truly should have statistics for such a blanket statement. It would be futile otherwise, and just a matter of your own opinion, which is exactly what it is...your own opinion uncleverly disguised as fact. Show hard facts, Mike. You can't. That's the point.

 

[El_Guero]

 

[Pastor Larry]

So where are the proofs that anyone is cheapening marriage, or being liberal about it? You guys make these silly claims, but then don't back them up. Mike says that he's not surprised I don't understand love and that we can love or hate. What surprises me is that he would make that statement. That is a ricidulous statement. I understand full well what love and hate are. He talks about the reason people get divorced, and he ignores God's reason. People get divorced because of hardness of heart.

Then he repeats the statement about forgiveness. That was already conclusively answered. It takes two people to have a marriage and if one forgives hte adulterer, but the adulterer does not want to reconcile, there is a divorce. Forgiveness has nothing to do with it.

The problem is that too many people here have never really dealt with what the Bible actually says. Therefore, they make these silly charges and ignore parts of Scripture. That is sad. Divorce and marriage are tough issues without you guys confusing it with bad understanding of the text. Move past it.

Now, if you want to substantiate your charges that someone is cheapening marriage, then please do so. If you don't want to substantiate it, then apologize for your false charge.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

AVL1984;

ILUVLIGHT, you truly should have statistics for such a blanket statement

I'm simply amazed of your lack of understanding. Love is the motivation for marriage. Love is what creates a successful marriage. The lack of which is what destroys all marriages. A spouse doesn't cheat on there spouse if they trully Love them. A spouse doesn't divorce there spouse if they trully love them.
1Co 13:8 Love never faileth: If you quit you've failed. If you cheat you've failed. If you divorce You've faled. If a marriage fails it is because of the lack of Love on one or the others part.
Are you so blind that you can't see that?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[AVL1984]

I don't have a lack of understanding. I do, however have a knowledge of blanket statements made by people who can't prove their points. Trying to turn the tables in stating that I'm blind is an age old trick. Better try to find something new, Mike...it's not working here.

Where are your hard statistics to back up your blanket statements? I'm simply AMAZED at your stonewalling.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Larry;

Mike says that he's not surprised I don't understand love and that we can love or hate. What surprises me is that he would make that statement. That is a ricidulous statement. I understand full well what love and hate are. He talks about the reason people get divorced, and he ignores God's reason. People get divorced because of hardness of heart.

This is God's will;
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?
Mat 19:6 So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

The separation of the one flesh is not His desire but mans, this is obvious.

You say it's because of the hardness of there hearts they get divorced. What do you suppose he is talking about? Hardness of heart is the results of the lack of real Love. There hearts are hard because they refuse to forgive. If you truly love that person in the first place you'll forgive them.

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

If your wife were to cheat on you and you couldn't find it in your heart to forgive her in order to save your marriage, (because if you did it would) then you Father in heaven wouldn't forgive you. To deny this is to deny scripture.

I've been reading your post for all most two years. This is why I don't believe you understand Love. Paul gave the most perfect description of it, I have ever read. You know where it is I would encourage you to study it intensely especially these verses.
1Co 13:4 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;

The problem is that too many people here have never really dealt with what the Bible actually says. Therefore, they make these silly charges and ignore parts of Scripture. That is sad.

It's OK Larry I forgive you. Most of us know you think everyone else is ignorant. That title of Pastor doesn't give you any special revelation or insight. In fact you're not any more right than any layman. I'm sure there are laymen here who knows much more than you do about scripture, and may even be more dedicated than you.
All those with whom you disagree with, are always ignorant of the truth according to you. You have one verse that you can manipulate others to your view with. Your failure to take scripture as a whole is why you have such a dim view. You discount the will of God for your good pleasure.
I just wonder have you been married more than once? If so this would explain a lot about where you are coming from.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

AVL1984;
The 1984 must be the year you were born.

I don't have a lack of understanding.

Sure we all believe you too

Trying to turn the tables in stating that I'm blind is an age old trick.

Well being blind to the truth, you wouldn't know would you.

Where are your hard statistics to back up your blanket statements?

My backing doesn't come from statistics it comes from scripture. A much more accrate media. If you're unable to understand simple English then I can't help you. Read my other post.
By the way have you been married more than once? If not are you planning a remarriage to someone new?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[AVL1984]

ILUVLIGHT, for one, I'm not going to continue to converse with someone who can only make petty attacks because of their lack of ability to answer. Your answer "from scripture" was not only twisted, but is not even close to being hermeneutically correct. You have NO backing from scripture, nor do you have any backing in statistics.
As far as my understanding of the English language, it was one of my minors in college, thank you, back in 1980.
As far as ability to read, I don't think you have much of that ability, for I have stated plainly in this thread that I have been married only once. Your questioning of whether or not I have "someone new" in mind is inflammatory and a defamation of my character (and that of my wife as well) which I personally will not stand for.
I think it's about time you grew up, bought a hermaneutics book, and learned how to rightly divide God's Word, young'un!

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

AVL1984;

ILUVLIGHT, for one, I'm not going to continue to converse with someone who can only make petty attacks because of their lack of ability to answer.

One could only hope for an end to your demeaning comments.
Accussing me of what you are most guilty of.

Your answer "from scripture" was not only twisted, but is not even close to being hermeneutically correct. You have NO backing from scripture, nor do you have any backing in statistics.

I did not twist scripture. Your reading of it is twisted.
I can't help it if you lack the maturity to understand mature thought. I should know better than to give meat to a child

I think it's about time you grew up, bought a hermaneutics book, and learned how to rightly divide God's Word, young'un!

Thankyou for calling me young'un. Although we can all tell that you don't know what you're talking about.
The rest of your statement is rather ridiculous.
since you were saved in 1983 at the Maranatha Bible Baptist Church. You have left your first love for Calvinism. Bible Baptist are not Calvinist at least the one I go to isn't. You demand statistics for which I never claimed I had any and then you failed to understand the basics of Love.
Your wonderful comand of the English language is shocking to say the least

And it was your major

Why not go ahead a blow off steam, it might make you feel better.
It really would be great if you really abided by your owns words;

I'm not going to continue to converse

That would really make me happy.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
Well you know, I just love it when I get ridiculed for holding on to the truth of scripture.

Neither you nor EG nor anyone else has established from scripture that a deacon cannot have a divorce in their past.

You have attempted diversions and dealt with all kinds of periphreal issues but you have not established that what you believe is the "truth of scripture." The texts simply don't say what you want them to.

The more ridicule the greater the reward.

Only if the ridicule comes because you are right. You have not established that you are... but maybe you will be different. What interpretation of "one woman man" would you propose that is true to the text and context and also consistently applicable?

I'm not surprized that Larry doesn't understand Love that we can Love or Hate anyone we want.

Who are you to make such a judgment? I haven't seen Larry say anything to you that would warrant such a charge. If disagreeing with you causes this kind of venom then perhaps you should evaluate yourself before judging Larry.

When we Love a woman enough to marry her. Falling out of Love is not an excuse, because we stop Loving because we want to. Usually because we never really Loved in the first place.

Two things. One, marriage is more than "love". It is a covenant. Jesus and Paul established cases where violations of that covenant justify divorce. This has nothing to do with the choice of whether to love or not and everything to do with trust and commitment- the covenant.

Second, the exceptions have to do with protecting the offended party. Just because a man continues to love his wife and intends to fulfill his obligation to the covenant he made doesn't mean that she will ever re-commit to him nor does it prevent her from divorcing him and marrying another (and vice versa for the wife).

Now back to the real topic of this thread.

-The Bible in Deut establishes that documented divorce ends a marriage for whatever reason.

-Jesus and Paul gave exceptions where one could divorce without sinning for fornication or abandonment.

-Sinful or not, divorce ends marriage.

-Divorce is not the unpardonable sin.

-The text that qualifies deacons doesn't mention divorce. It only says that the deacon must be a "one woman man".

-One man woman may apply to the man's current demonstration of character as would be consistent with the rest of the passage or it may apply to his whole life.

-If it applies to his whole life then all sexual sins need to be considered for one's whole life and not just divorce if we are to be faithful and consistent with the text.

 

[El_Guero]

BOTH BANNER ADDS are about cheating spouses ...

 

[El_Guero]

Argumentation from silence.
Argumentation from what if we do accept His word - "Oh no, I don't like that answer".
Argumentation from human logic.
Argumentation from an English translation.
Argumentation from a culture of divorce.


But, God's clear Word is still His Word ... "Husband of one Wife" is still the clearest and simplest reading of the text.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Argumentation from silence.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. God's Word doesn't say something and we are guilty of arguing from silence for saying no when you attempt to add what you think God meant to what He actually said?

Argumentation from what if we do accept His word - "Oh no, I don't like that answer".

I accept God's Word. It is yours that I find suspect.

Just deal with what the text says EG. Why are you evading the heart of the matter? The text simply does not say what you want it to.

BTW, it is interesting that it is our side that is actually discussing the scripture and leaving it in its context to do so. If you are right and we are wrong, why can't you just prove your case from scripture and leave off the hatefulness and false innuendo?

Argumentation from human logic.

That appears to be the only basis for your position. You refuse to deal with what the Bible says but instead jump to conclusions from your own bias.

Argumentation from an English translation.

God didn't give his Word in English. "One woman man" is the most literal translation and gives the fuller sense of the requirement.

Argumentation from a culture of divorce.

This is nothing but diversion and avoidance on your part. No one here has praised divorce or approved the "culture of divorce".

The issue is what God said the requirements for a deacon are- not how wicked our society is.

But, God's clear Word is still His Word ... "Husband of one Wife" is still the clearest and simplest reading of the text.

You keep saying things like this so why are you avoiding what God's Word clearly says... and does not say?

The clearest, simplest, and most accurate reading of the text is "one woman man". It discludes the traditional bias that quite well might have been derived from catholicism. At the same time, it includes the whole scope of a man's character with regard to sex and women that "husband of one wife" does not.

As others have said, a repeat adulterer can technically be the "husband of one wife"- as can a porn addict, a divorcee who was guilty of adultery but never remarried, habitual flirt, a person who was extremely promiscuous before marriage, someone with an uncontrolled fantasy life, etc.