Greetings again and thank you for your reply.
I see a lot of verbiage, but apparently of the double talk variety.
Ahh, salt right out of the gate. Glad to be back.
Starting from the end of your post and then moving forward.
Hopefully, we agree, once saved, always saved.
To this, it would seem we agree.
You might believe I do not believe God intervenes and alters outcomes, but you have no basis for that fiction.
Thank you for the clarification. You are here asserting that you are a not a Diest. Got it.
Every salvation is an intervention altering the outcome.
The evidence you give to show you are not a Diest would seem to be salvation. Your holding to the 'intervention' of salvation does exclude you from the strict definition of the term Diest. My apologies.
Prevenient grace is a fiction, as some of the lost, those fitting the categories of Soils #2, #3, and #4, are able to seek God and believe in Christ.
As I said in the other post, I understand you would not accept the concept of an enabling grace. I will point out that your assertion that mankind can 'seek' God needn't and does not logically necessitate that my assertion is false.
those fitting the categories of Soils #2, #3, and #4, are able to seek God and believe in Christ
We agree that Soils #2, #3, and #4 seek God. But you left out some important parts, imo. First, the seed was sown by the sower.
Second, we need to establish that the “Sower” is reasonably considered a vessel of God. The vessel isn’t doing his own work but the work of his Master. Further, “it is God who works” (Phil 2:13) in the vessel (Heb 13:21, Phil 2:13) so that His word is shown through the work of the man. As Zechariah 7:12 teaches, the “Lord of hosts” sends His “law and the words” by “His Spirit” through the vessels. In other words, it is the Spirit that accompanies the gospel words through the evangelist, which is the vessel of God’s work, to the listener. For what does the verse say, God sends his word by “His Spirit” (Zech 7:12). Likewise, it is the Spirit that is ever present and accompanying the utterances of the gospel words, called the “seed” that is being sown, through the sower. This presence of the Spirit in this gospel message of life, or sowing of the seed, is what makes “the word of God… living and powerful” (Heb 4:12) and of “spirit, and are life” (John 6:63).
Germination, which is what is shown in Soils #2, #3, and #4, serves as a powerful symbol of the beginnings of the informative and transformative power of God’s word. To me the point of the sowers parable isn't that man can seek God (although I accept your assertion that it shows this). The sowers parable's significant point is that there was germination, i.e., evidences of some life within (if only to be brief and fleeting as they fall away).
The words that contain life, which are the seeds, are literally “living and powerful” (Heb 4:12) because the words are accompanied by “His Spirit” (Zech 7:12) that are sown in the hearts of men (the soil). And the only explanation for benign concrete words being expressed as being of spirit and life is that the ever present Spirit is the ultimate source behind the sowing of the words, symbolized as seeds, to the heart (symbolized as soil).
In other words, it may be me as God’s servant who utters benign lifeless words, but it is the Spirit who works through me accompanying and sowing those words as “living and powerful” (Heb 4:12) to every heart. For what does Scripture say, the Spirit not only “upholds all things” (Heb 1:3), but is active and present in every moment in time (Psa 139:7). The Spirit is constantly “searching all things” (1Cor 2:10) especially the hearts of all men (Rom 8:27), judging the thoughts and attitudes of the hearts of all men (Heb 4:12). Further, this activity in conjunction with the experiential moment that the Spirit is upholding, exposes motives (1Cor 4:5). Thus, God “is actually not far from each one of us” (Acts 17:27, Jer 23:23).
The Spirit is every present and ever working in this world. In every moment of time.
Yes, Christ died as a ransom for all.
As a multiple intentions of the atonement advocate, I agree.
All people are NOT drawn "upon Christ's "death and resurrection" People are "drawn" (attracted) when and if they "behold" (become aware) that Christ suffered crucifixion in order to provide the means of reconciliation to all people.
Can you explain how your statement measures and explains John 12:32? I'm unclear on whether your objection is simply semantics or the taking of what I wrote as some literal version of drawing all people as Christ is ascending.
Can you explain your interpretation of John 12:32 so I can understand where you stand when Christ said, I "will draw all [peoples] to myself".
The issue is not the "light" brought by God to humanity, the issue is whether or not lost humanity is able to receive it and respond such that God saves them without being enabled by supernatural alteration. I say the lost are able to respond to "spiritual milk" the fundamentals of the gospel.
Considering that some would deny that there is a light to all mankind. It would seem that it would apply to this subject. But let me get more focused on what you want to talk about.
1. Does lost humanity receive the "light". I think as you can see through my posting, my answer is yes.
2. Can lost humanity respond to the light... of course. Even those in the body were once lost. But you want to also include all the others of humanity. So to them I also say yes. And yes there are some that actually do respond and seek for a time and fall away (this is not a denial of once saved always saved).
3. Can humanity respond to the light without an irresistible grace (I'm assuming this is what you are getting at. If not let me know).... this answer is yes.
So there you go, got off track. My apologies.
Peace to you brother.
