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Hyles Anderson College under Schaap
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
paidagogos
Active Member
Second thoughts
I am unashamedly an IFB’er. However, I cannot defend Mr. Schaap and his following in their excesses and un-Scriptural teachings. Although he purports to be one of us (i.e. an IFB), we do ourselves a disservice and harm to the cross of Christ by defending him when he is wrong. Don’t let the urge to defend one of our own detract from our defense of truth and the Word of God.
On the other hand, I appreciate Mr. Schaap’s zeal for soul-winning (although not always his methods), support of missions, promotion of good causes, etc. However, all the good done by a man does not in any way compensate for anything that is wrong or in error and needs rebuking. Mr. Schaap is not above critique and rebuke when he is out-of-line with the Word of God. But, let’s do it charitably.
My heart is burdened for this young man and his apparent lack of discernment and understanding. Although he, I believe, is sincere and zealous, I fear that discouragement and disillusionment will set in as life’s experiences force reality upon him. Some already have become shipwreck when they realized what they were being told did not match up with reality. Let’s pray for this young man rather than castigate him. I have written and then deleted a stinging refutation of his post—God softened my heart.Preacher Boy88 said:
I am unashamedly an IFB’er. However, I cannot defend Mr. Schaap and his following in their excesses and un-Scriptural teachings. Although he purports to be one of us (i.e. an IFB), we do ourselves a disservice and harm to the cross of Christ by defending him when he is wrong. Don’t let the urge to defend one of our own detract from our defense of truth and the Word of God.
On the other hand, I appreciate Mr. Schaap’s zeal for soul-winning (although not always his methods), support of missions, promotion of good causes, etc. However, all the good done by a man does not in any way compensate for anything that is wrong or in error and needs rebuking. Mr. Schaap is not above critique and rebuke when he is out-of-line with the Word of God. But, let’s do it charitably.
ccrobinson said:
Does anybody not get the fact that we are ALL sinners, everybody says wrong things time to time...We aren't God...we aren't perfect...I mean why don't you recognize your own faults rather than someone elses.....like I said before let God be the judge of others...God knows everyones heart...and if God doesn't like what Pastor Schaap is doing than why is FBCH prosperous? I mean seriously just stop throwing darts at Pastor Schaap and start throwin them at the Devil!!!!!!!
Jnell
Who said we don't recognize our own sins? speaking for myself, I do. And I confess them. Schaap apparently does not. I have not heard of any confession or repudiation of the heresy of Jack Hyles or confession and repentance for standing behind an immoral and ungodly man like Hyles. Why hasn't Schaap repented of that?
Should we apply that standard to Joel Osteen? Or the RCC (who is far bigger and more prosperous than FBCH)? The truth is that prosperity has never been the measure of God's blessing. Remember Isaiah, or Jeremiah, or a host of other prophets who had very little fruit.
Actually, the Bible teaches that we are to judge the obedience of others (Rom 16:17-18; Jude; 2 Thess 3; 1 Cor 5; Matt 18; etc). Sounds like HAC is not teaching you the Bible over there.
Question?
Children,
Why do we continue to discuss the man, ministry, and mission of HAC or FBC Hammond?
Let the dead bury their dead, and let the "ministries" as such "rise or fall unto the Lord."
None on either side of these issues is going to change so what is the ultimate point?
Just my two cents worth!
sdg!:thumbs:
rd
Children,
Why do we continue to discuss the man, ministry, and mission of HAC or FBC Hammond?
Let the dead bury their dead, and let the "ministries" as such "rise or fall unto the Lord."
None on either side of these issues is going to change so what is the ultimate point?
Just my two cents worth!
sdg!:thumbs:
rd
Preacher Boy88
New Member
I don't know why I'm posting this but if possible, listen to Bro. Schaap's message, "If I Be Lifted Up". It was the last message he preached in chapel this school year. I believe that the above is the correct title. Listen to the sermon, unbiased and with no preconceived notions. You'll truly understand the heart of my preacher. Just so you professional critics know, he's referencing lifting up Christ and not himself. I know that if I don't preface this "advertisement" with that statement, some proud, egotistical person would make the statement that "There goes Schaap again, trying to lift himself up." Please honestly listen to a message from a true blue-all the way through preacher.
P B 88
P B 88,
I will bite!!!!
Post me a web page or link and I will go there and at least listen to at a bit of the sermon. As an academic, I need to give full credence to the evidence. Else, I would loose some stature as a social scientists! HA!:laugh:
You do not know me but that last comment is said tongue-n-cheek!
"Stay by the stuff!" (Find that in you KJV Bible?)!
sdg! (as Rush Limbaugh would say: that means soli deo gloria! for those of you in Rio Linda!).
sdg!:thumbs:
rd
P B 88,
I will bite!!!!
Post me a web page or link and I will go there and at least listen to at a bit of the sermon. As an academic, I need to give full credence to the evidence. Else, I would loose some stature as a social scientists! HA!:laugh:
You do not know me but that last comment is said tongue-n-cheek!
"Stay by the stuff!" (Find that in you KJV Bible?)!
sdg! (as Rush Limbaugh would say: that means soli deo gloria! for those of you in Rio Linda!).
sdg!:thumbs:
rd
Rhetorician said:
I'll do you one better. Go to this site, and listen to any of his sermons. It always makes for a fun-filled day. Or something like that.
http://baptist-city.com/schaap_weekly.htm
I am not a HAC fan, or Schaap fan by a long shot...
I disagree with a lot of their theology...
But there are verses in the Bible that deal with new teachings...
Read them, and see what you get out of them...
I say, let Schaap keep talking..... he will dig his own grave by his words... or he will be vindicated by his words...
Let God take care of it.
Acts 5:34-42
(34) Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
(35) And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
(36) For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
(37) After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
(38) And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
(39) But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
(40) And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten [them], they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
(41) And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
(42) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
I disagree with a lot of their theology...
But there are verses in the Bible that deal with new teachings...
Read them, and see what you get out of them...
I say, let Schaap keep talking..... he will dig his own grave by his words... or he will be vindicated by his words...
Let God take care of it.
Acts 5:34-42
(34) Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
(35) And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
(36) For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
(37) After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
(38) And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
(39) But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
(40) And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten [them], they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
(41) And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
(42) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
But the principle of God being in control of HIS church, God's church, is in that passage...
I'm not going to defend Schaap... I disagree with most of what he says.
I am not an UFO, I am not ultra Seperatist, I am not KJVO, I feel HAC style evangelism is wrong in that it is just a salesmans approach to the Gospel, and it is easy believism... I have seen the results of churches that copied Hyles visitation style evangelism... they bring them in, save them, baptize them, teach them the techinique and that is it...
And before long, it is all about numbers, and no discipleship.
I have a lot I disagree with concerning FBC Hammond, and if I were ever in Hammond, I wouldn't walk across the street to go there to attend a service...
BUT>>>
God is ultimately in control. God will take care of false teachers... It may not be in my life time, or yours, but when you look at eternity, God will take care of them.
That is all I am saying...
I'm not going to defend Schaap... I disagree with most of what he says.
I am not an UFO, I am not ultra Seperatist, I am not KJVO, I feel HAC style evangelism is wrong in that it is just a salesmans approach to the Gospel, and it is easy believism... I have seen the results of churches that copied Hyles visitation style evangelism... they bring them in, save them, baptize them, teach them the techinique and that is it...
And before long, it is all about numbers, and no discipleship.
I have a lot I disagree with concerning FBC Hammond, and if I were ever in Hammond, I wouldn't walk across the street to go there to attend a service...
BUT>>>
God is ultimately in control. God will take care of false teachers... It may not be in my life time, or yours, but when you look at eternity, God will take care of them.
That is all I am saying...
tinytim said:
True, He will. But is it not our duty to warn others of false teaching? We can't just let it sit and lure in immature believers who aren't able to discern the Word correctly. I do not find it Scriptural in the least to let false teachers go by without soundly rebuking them, and warning others of their teachings. Shout it from the rooftops so that others will know.
tinytim said:
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! LET GOD DEAL WITH IT...!!!!
IT HURTS TO SEE ADULTS DOING WHAT THEY TELL US TEENS NOT TO DO!!! (GOSSIP, BAD TALK OTHER PREACHERS, BAD TALK OTHERS-PERIOD!!) IT'S NOT A VERY GOOD TESTIMONY TO THOSE OF US WHO LOOK UP TO THOSE WHO SAY THEY SERVE, LOVE, AND HONOR GOD! I'D LIKE THIS WHOLE TOPIC TO BE DONE WITH...IT JUST CREATES TURMOIL AND SETS THE SCENE FOR OTHERS TO GET INTO ARGUMENTS WHICH ISN'T HEALTHY FOR THE SPIRIT OR OUR TESTIMONIES!!!! WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN UNSAVED PERSON COMES ON HERE AND ALL THEY SEE IS US TRASHING OTHERS...THEY'D SAY "HYPOCRITES WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY...WE COULD RUIN THE CHANCE OF THEM GETTING SAVED!!! I'M DONE...THANKS FOR READING...PLEASE JUST PRAY FOR THOSE WHO YOU THINK ARE GOING DOWN THE WRONG PATH.......JUST PRAY....THAT'S WHAT GOD TELLS US TO DO!!!!!
LOVE IN CHRIST,
JNELL
"GOD ALLOW ME TO GIVE GRACE, LOVE, JOY, AND MERCY AS YOU HAVE GIVEN ME."
JNELL,
You are being deceived. The Bible does not tell us to stand aside and let the gospel of Christ be defamed and denied and let God sort it out. In fact, 1 Cor 5 specifically says that we are to judge those within the church and leave those outside of the church to the judgement of God. GOd never tells us to leave the judgment of those in the church to him.
Rom 16:17-18 does not tell us to stand aside. It tells us to mark and avoid them. Titus 3 tells us to confront and correct them. We are to warn others of the danger.
That is what we are doing here. We are being obedient to God so that when people wander by, whether saved or unsaved, they can hear the truth. Even you are a part of that. Having heard the truth about Schaap and his doctrinal and personal character issues, will you respond biblically by separating from him or will you continue to support him?
You are being deceived. The Bible does not tell us to stand aside and let the gospel of Christ be defamed and denied and let God sort it out. In fact, 1 Cor 5 specifically says that we are to judge those within the church and leave those outside of the church to the judgement of God. GOd never tells us to leave the judgment of those in the church to him.
Rom 16:17-18 does not tell us to stand aside. It tells us to mark and avoid them. Titus 3 tells us to confront and correct them. We are to warn others of the danger.
That is what we are doing here. We are being obedient to God so that when people wander by, whether saved or unsaved, they can hear the truth. Even you are a part of that. Having heard the truth about Schaap and his doctrinal and personal character issues, will you respond biblically by separating from him or will you continue to support him?
Preacher Boy88 said:
Sorry Preacher, I'm not biting. I've already been there my friend. I spent twenty years eating up Hyles/Gray/Schaap/etc-type preaching. Then one day I got nauseous, very nauseous, and vomited out all man-centered worship. Now I feel clean, very clean. The words may be a little harsh but they're meant to help you. I pray you will not waste twenty years in that cult.