I’m terrified of this indisputable pro-choice argument

[Scarlett O.]

111kg -

I'm saddened by your statement, "if God exists".... it led me to seek out your profile page where I see your statement of salvation is "because I'm a good person".

The Bible says that there is "none good, no not one". That means not you, not me, and not anyone.

Are you a Christian? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Don]

I do believe that, if God exists, he wouldn't want his children to live a miserable life. And there are different types of abortion too. For instance, there are some medical conditions in which the baby is harming the mother, reason why is generally considered a better idea to stop the pregnancy and letting the mother live.

"If God exists."

Thus, you approach this matter from a world view instead of a spiritual view. I believe God exists; and thus, I believe God works all things for good, according to His plan. That includes the death of our children; yes, even abortion, although that's not what He wants; and yes, a "miserable life." For example, God allowed the devil to persecute Job; subsequently, the devil caused all of Job's children to perish. Job's reaction was to praise God. And when it was shown that the devil was wrong, and Job would not curse God because of his troubles, God blessed Job ten-fold.

In other words, your world-view approach does not allow for God's grace and power to work in all situations. You are focused on the misery instead of the promise of glory. And thus, I don't believe there's anything more we can discuss on this issue.

 

[annsni]

I do believe that, if God exists, he wouldn't want his children to live a miserable life.

Why do you think this is? Don't you think a lot of our "miseries" are actually a result of our own choices? If we don't feel that it is right to bring a child into the world, then maybe we should make sure we don't bring a child into this world. I'm not speaking of abortion but sterilization because once a child is conceived, a child is already in this world. Do you think tearing a human being's arms and legs off and crushing it's skull is better than a miserable life? I'd say for that short little life that child had, that would be pretty miserable.

And there are different types of abortion too. For instance, there are some medical conditions in which the baby is harming the mother, reason why is generally considered a better idea to stop the pregnancy and letting the mother live.

The only case of the need to stop the pregnancy to save the mother's life is an ectopic pregnancy and that is a case where the child cannot live even should we allow the pregnancy to continue. Any other case would allow for the mother to bring the child to a point in pregnancy where that child would have a good chance of surviving birth. There is no reason to kill a child.

 

[111kg]

111kg -

I'm saddened by your statement, "if God exists".... it led me to seek out your profile page where I see your statement of salvation is "because I'm a good person".

The Bible says that there is "none good, no not one". That means not you, not me, and not anyone.

Are you a Christian? I'm genuinely interested.

I was educated as a Christian. However, I have never been able to find a God to believe in. I don't share the same moral values with the biblical value, not if you take all the teachings as they are. If we adopt the to the today's reality, I can find some common points of view.

"If God exists."

Thus, you approach this matter from a world view instead of a spiritual view. I believe God exists; and thus, I believe God works all things for good, according to His plan.

I can not believe and love a God that plans to give his children diseases like Progeria, bone cancer and so on. If every birth is a miracle, then why would this miracle be accompanied by misery?

That includes the death of our children; yes, even abortion, although that's not what He wants;

But you continue to talk about God's plan. If there is a plan, where is the free will? If we all live in a giant plan, then why isn't an abortion considered as an act directed by God himself? It's a terrible sacrifice that women choose to do. Imagine how many deaths are in the Bible, deaths that are directed by God himself. Why can't an abortion be considered the same?

In other words, your world-view approach does not allow for God's grace and power to work in all situations. You are focused on the misery instead of the promise of glory.

Of course I do not believe in a promise of glory. I simply can not believe in a God who let's his children die sometimes minutes after their birth. There is no point in giving the miracle of life and taking it back immediately. Assuming that this is all part of a plan, why would he do this? Because I can't simply believe that a child that dies of a terrible disease is an act of love.

This is why I can not believe in the God that's presented in the Bible, one of the reasons at least. I do believe, however, in love, in making good deeds.

 

[111kg]

PS: One of the reasons I joined this forum was because I wanted to understand better why people believe in God. Just because I simply can not believe in the biblical God, it doesn't mean that I am a bad person. This is why I would hate to see ad hominem arguments on this thread. If you want, I can stop posting.

 

[TCassidy]

I was educated as a Christian. However, I have never been able to find a God to believe in.

So, you admit you lied to get on this forum which is for Christians. Shame on you. You are here under false pretenses.

 

[dechanta]

I personally would not have an abortion because I believe it is a form of murder, but I don't judge or look down on women who choose to have abortions. I've always felt it would be better to use some sort of birth control to prevent pregnancy instead of using abortion as a form of birth control. We all sin and I leave it up to the Lord to punish, it's not my place.

 

[Don]

I was educated as a Christian. However, I have never been able to find a God to believe in. I don't share the same moral values with the biblical value, not if you take all the teachings as they are. If we adopt the to the today's reality, I can find some common points of view.


I can not believe and love a God that plans to give his children diseases like Progeria, bone cancer and so on. If every birth is a miracle, then why would this miracle be accompanied by misery?


But you continue to talk about God's plan. If there is a plan, where is the free will? If we all live in a giant plan, then why isn't an abortion considered as an act directed by God himself? It's a terrible sacrifice that women choose to do. Imagine how many deaths are in the Bible, deaths that are directed by God himself. Why can't an abortion be considered the same?


Of course I do not believe in a promise of glory. I simply can not believe in a God who let's his children die sometimes minutes after their birth. There is no point in giving the miracle of life and taking it back immediately. Assuming that this is all part of a plan, why would he do this? Because I can't simply believe that a child that dies of a terrible disease is an act of love.

This is why I can not believe in the God that's presented in the Bible, one of the reasons at least. I do believe, however, in love, in making good deeds.

Here's the problem: you picked and chose which parts of my post you wanted to address.

For example, you completely ignored my reference to the story of Job, which contradicts everything you base your premise on; that premise being, that God is the author of evil, and thus, we have no free will.

The story of Job tells us that God allowed Satan to work evil against Job; God did not cause the evil that befell Job. Satan's purpose was to show God that even the most righteous man will turn and curse his Maker when faced with overwhelming tribulations and grief.

Instead, Job praised God. God did not cause Job to praise Him; Job did so of his own free will.

Job was victorious over Satan, exercising his free will and choosing to continue worshipping and glorifying God, when he had every reason NOT to do so.

The alternative is to allow Satan the victory, and blame God for the woes of this world.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

FYI when a member's name has a line through it, it means the meber is banned.

 

[Don]

Who would that be? Tapatalk doesn't show names with lines through them.

 

[annsni]

I don't see lines through names either. I'm on my laptop on Chrome.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

111kg

Who would that be? Tapatalk doesn't show names with lines through them.

 

[carpro]

111kg

Good move.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[clemdawg]

His answers are very good, and focuses (without actually saying it) the nature of the subject: Relationships. To treat an unborn human life growing inside you the way this pro-choicer analogizes, requires a callousness that is completely devoid of morality, no matter how moral the pro-choicer thinks making decisions for your own body is. It requires denying that the life growing inside you is made up of your own genetic code. It requires denying that you created a continuation of yourself. And it requires admitting that you're so selfish that your only concern is yourself, and admitting that you place yourself above all others.

Very well stated.

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