I am a false convert, love my sin, and headed to hell!!

[RLBosley]

Knowledge teaches you that you are a lost sinner.

Knowledge teaches you that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose from the dead three days later.

Knowledge teaches us that if we will believe or depend on Jesus to save us, that he will forgive all our sins and give us everlasting life.

Knowledge simply enables you to be saved. It does not save you, Jesus saves you.

Let's say you are bitten by a poisonous snake. You are told you will die in a few hours.

A friend tells you a certain doctor has the antidote for this snakebite. He gives you the address.

This knowledge enables you to quickly drive to this doctor's office. The doctor sees the snakebite, and immediately gives you a shot of the antidote. You survive.

What saved you from this snakebite? The doctor and his antidote. Knowledge simply enabled you to access this doctor and his antidote.

This is how salvation works. The word of God teaches you that you are a lost sinner on the way to hell. The word of God also teaches you that Jesus died for your sins and will save you if you trust him. This knowledge enables you to go to Jesus in your heart and trust or rely upon him to save you. Jesus saves you.

And all people, without the sovereign intervention of God, reject this knowledge.

 

[Winman]

You disagree with Hebrews 11:1?

No, but Romans 4:21 and Hebrews 11:11 are also describing what faith is. It is being persuaded that God can and will perform what he has promised. It is taking God at his word.

And you think that the spiritually dead, those who hate God and are in rebellion against him, are capable of this?

I think this is part of the problem, the spiritually dead don't always hate God, and they aren't always in rebellion to him. We are clearly told that Cornelius was not saved, but he did not hate God, neither was he rebellious. The Philipian jailer certainly did not hate God, and he was not being rebellious when he burst in trembling and asked Paul and Silas how to be saved.

The day of Pentacost over 3000 men were deeply convicted by Peter's preaching. They didn't rebel, but earnestly asked Peter what could they do?

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

So, this idea that spiritually dead people always hate God and are always rebellious does not agree with scripture.

Faith allowed her to make that judgment. Faith wasn't the judgment itself.

No, she judged she could trust God, that he was faithful. You have it backwards.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

And this is in no way relevant to the discussion.

Yes it is, it shows that a sinner can believe. Believing does not make us good, just as a career criminal is not good. It was his mother that was good, and that is why he could trust her. God is good, and that is why we can trust him, even if we are evil ourselves.

Yes we must look to Jesus, but who looks to Jesus? Those drawn by the Father. The elect.

False, every man could look. Read for yourself.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Being bitten by these fiery serpents represents sin. Every man has been bitten by the fiery serpent of sin and will die. But "every one" that was bitten may freely look to Jesus and live.

"But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ... "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. - Jhn 6:36-40, 44 NASB

You stopped short. Verse 45 explains how men are drawn to Jesus.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Did Jesus say those that have been supernaturally regenerated shall come to him? NO, he said every man that is TAUGHT, that has HEARD and LEARNED from the Father comes to him. And how do we learn from the Father? By hearing the word of God, the scriptures.

The crowd saw Jesus and his miracles, yet they didn't believe. Jesus explains why: those who are given to the Son by the Father are those who come to him. Beholding the Son and believing in him is clearly parallel to coming to the Son. The Father draws the sinner, gives him to the Son, the sinner beholds and believes in the Son, the Son receives (saves) the sinner, will never lose him nor cast him away and will raise him up on the last day.

Many did believe.

From beginning to end it is the work of the Triune God.

You will say, "He draws all people according to John 12." But that can't be as ALL who are drawn WILL come to the Son:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. ... "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. - Jhn 6:37, 39 NASB

None that the Son is given, by the Father, will ever be lost. Those drawn are those saved. Therefore, if everyone is drawn, everyone is saved and universalism is true. Clearly not the case.

Not all that are drawn are saved, read Matthew 22:1-14:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Lots of folks are called and drawn, but refuse to come.

Regeneration occurs when the Spirit opens the heart of the sinner to receive the gospel. It works in accordance with gospel preaching. Why can't you understand this?

If they are already regenerated they do not need to hear the gospel. You are either spiritually alive or dead, there is nothing in-between. If you are already spiritually alive, why do you need to hear the gospel? You already have life.

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. - Rom 10:14-17 NASB

Yes, God provides the word of God, but we have to hear. Those who refuse to listen and hear, those that will not be taught and will not learn cannot be saved.

Yes God has his chosen which will be saved. The God ordained means by which the elect are saved is through hearing the gospel.

But you don't believe they are saved through hearing the gospel, you believe they are regenerated BEFORE they can even be willing to consider the gospel. They are already alive, what do they need to be saved from?

How do you think this supports your position? The dead, the unregenerate, hear the words of Jesus and are brought to spiritual life! The dead don't bring themselves to life nor are they able. You believe that the one who is spiritually dead chooses to believe and thus brings himself back to life. You are confused and clearly don't understand what you rail against.

No, the dead that "hear" shall live. These are the dead persons who listen and learn, and trust Jesus as they are instructed. To those who hear and believe Jesus, to these persons Jesus gives life.

Your understanding of Calvinism is error.

I believe it is you that does not understand your own doctrine. Spurgeon understood that it is unnecessary to preach the gospel to someone who is already regenerated, but he seems to have forgotten that Calvinism teaches that an unregenerate person cannot understand the gospel, neither can he be willing to hear it or believe it. Calvinism teaches only a regenerate person has the ability to hear and believe the gospel, but they don't need it.

It is a Catch 22.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic)

 

[RLBosley]

No, but Romans 4:21 and Hebrews 11:11 are also describing what faith is. It is being persuaded that God can and will perform what he has promised. It is taking God at his word.

No it is not. No matter how much you affirm that it is, faith is not only taking God at his word.

I think this is part of the problem, the spiritually dead don't always hate God, and they aren't always in rebellion to him. We are clearly told that Cornelius was not saved, but he did not hate God, neither was he rebellious. The Philipian jailer certainly did not hate God, and he was not being rebellious when he burst in trembling and asked Paul and Silas how to be saved.

The jailer was already repentant when he asked the question. Would you really question that he hated the true God all his life before this point? God had opened his heart to receive the gospel.

The day of Pentacost over 3000 men were deeply convicted by Peter's preaching. They didn't rebel, but earnestly asked Peter what could they do?

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

“Pricked in their heart.” Sounds a lot like God drawing and opening their heart to me. Previously they had hated God, now they were receptive. No issue there.

So, this idea that spiritually dead people always hate God and are always rebellious does not agree with scripture.

It does actually.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, - Rom 1:28-30 NASB

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, - Rom 8:7 NASB

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. - Rom 5:10 NASB

And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, - Col 1:21 NASB

No, she judged she could trust God, that he was faithful. You have it backwards.

I’m not saying that wasn’t a part of her faith. But it wasn’t the whole. Simply believing God’s promises, or believing in God, is not biblical faith.

Yes it is, it shows that a sinner can believe. Believing does not make us good, just as a career criminal is not good. It was his mother that was good, and that is why he could trust her. God is good, and that is why we can trust him, even if we are evil ourselves.

I see what you are trying to say, but the fundamental problem is you are missing that we are in rebellion, by nature, against God. The man in your parable is not so cut off from his mother. A better comparison would be a man who had ignored everything good his mother had ever done and held her in contempt all his life. In prison he yells nothing but death threats at her when told she wants to visit. Regardless, she decides that despite his hate and rebellion toward her she will go visit him in prison, loves him unconditionally which changes his heart and makes him receptive to her. Of course the analogy breaks down as all do, but you get the gist.

False, every man could look. Read for yourself.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Being bitten by these fiery serpents represents sin. Every man has been bitten by the fiery serpent of sin and will die. But "every one" that was bitten may freely look to Jesus and live.

This is simple grammar. It doesn’t say that every man looked or that every man would. Doesn't even say that every man COULD! Only that every man who did look was healed. Same with Christ. Not everyone will look or believe, but everyone who does will be saved.

You stopped short. Verse 45 explains how men are drawn to Jesus.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Did Jesus say those that have been supernaturally regenerated shall come to him? NO, he said every man that is TAUGHT, that has HEARD and LEARNED from the Father comes to him. And how do we learn from the Father? By hearing the word of God, the scriptures.

Have you read the OT passages that are quoted (It’s really a mishmash of OT verses)? God is speaking of teaching his law to all those in the New Covenant Israel, those to whom he has given a new heart, as Jeremiah 31:33-34 makes clear. It is not talking about being taught scripture. Those who are taught are taught BY God, not about God.

This being taught by the Father is analogous to the Father drawing. ALL the Father teaches will come to Christ. It is a divine instruction, not something we do.

Let’s take your interpretation to it’s conclusion. If this teaching is the teaching from scripture, and Jesus says in verse 45, “Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.” Then EVERY person who has ever heard the gospel must be saved! Is that true? Of course not! Your interpretation falls short. Only those given to the Son will come. Those who are given to the Son are drawn by the Father. They are taught by the Father. They all come. They are all saved. They are all glorified.

The only options are either particular redemption/election or complete universalism.

Many did believe.

No they didn’t. Not in this instance.

As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. - Jhn 6:66 NASB

Not all that are drawn are saved, read Matthew 22:1-14:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Lots of folks are called and drawn, but refuse to come.

You are going outside the passage in question, to not only another book but another human author talking about a different subject.

The parable in Matthew is speaking about what the human call of the gospel is like. Those sending forth the call here are the servants of the King. This is analogous to Christians sharing the gospel with whoever will listen. They are publicly called to repent and believe. Yet only those who receive the divine call that opens the heart will actually believe.

If they are already regenerated they do not need to hear the gospel. You are either spiritually alive or dead, there is nothing in-between. If you are already spiritually alive, why do you need to hear the gospel? You already have life.

This has been explained to you.

Yes, God provides the word of God, but we have to hear. Those who refuse to listen and hear, those that will not be taught and will not learn cannot be saved.

All people refuse. That’s why God must open the heart as he did to Lydia.

But you don't believe they are saved through hearing the gospel, you believe they are regenerated BEFORE they can even be willing to consider the gospel. They are already alive, what do they need to be saved from?

No. I believe that the elect hear the gospel (first time or hundredth time, whenever God chooses) and when they hear it, God opens the heart and grants faith and repentance, enabling them to respond willingly to the gospel. The gospel is the means by which God brings salvation.

No, the dead that "hear" shall live. These are the dead persons who listen and learn, and trust Jesus as they are instructed. To those who hear and believe Jesus, to these persons Jesus gives life.

How can the dead do anything? You are saying that the dead must respond first then Jesus makes them alive. Totally contradictory to what Jesus is saying. He says the Son first acts by imparting life, then they respond. “Those who hear, will live.” Sounds A LOT like those who are drawn will be raised. Those who are taught will come.

I believe it is you that does not understand your own doctrine. Spurgeon understood that it is unnecessary to preach the gospel to someone who is already regenerated, but he seems to have forgotten that Calvinism teaches that an unregenerate person cannot understand the gospel, neither can he be willing to hear it or believe it. Calvinism teaches only a regenerate person has the ability to hear and believe the gospel, but they don't need it.

You are only showing that you fail to understand both the doctrines of grace and Spurgeon. I'm not trying to be insulting or arrogant, but you really show little evidence of understanding what Calvinism teaches. Read Calvinist writings, not writings about Calvinism by Arminians.

 

[DHK]

Regeneration shows the sinner they are in need of being converted. Many are sick, yet don't believe they will die. Many have had chest pains, and yet, refused to go to their doctor, and died. Those who truly know they need healed go to their doctor seeking their assistance....

Where do you find this in Scripture? A regenerated person is a believer in Christ, one whom Paul calls a saint. They already know who to go to. God is their father, and Christ is their Savior.
Give chapter verse for your position.

 

[Winman]

No it is not. No matter how much you affirm that it is, faith is not only taking God at his word.

We will have to agree to disagree.

The jailer was already repentant when he asked the question. Would you really question that he hated the true God all his life before this point? God had opened his heart to receive the gospel.

He wasn't regenerated, because Paul told him he needed to believe to be saved.

“Pricked in their heart.” Sounds a lot like God drawing and opening their heart to me. Previously they had hated God, now they were receptive. No issue there.

They didn't hate God, the scriptures called them "devout" men. (Acts 2:5)

It does actually.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, - Rom 1:28-30 NASB

Romans 1 is speaking of "reprobates", men that God has given over to sin.

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, - Rom 8:7 NASB

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. - Rom 5:10 NASB

And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, - Col 1:21 NASB[/I]

Men's minds are not always set on the flesh.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

The disciples here did not have the Holy Spirit yet, yet in their natural spirit they were quite willing to obey Jesus.

I’m not saying that wasn’t a part of her faith. But it wasn’t the whole. Simply believing God’s promises, or believing in God, is not biblical faith.

Faith is trusting God, relying on his promises. Spurgeon says this himself.

Believing is partly the intellectual operation of receiving divine truths, but the essence of it lies in relying upon those truths.

It is taking God at his word, and trusting in Jesus Christ as being my salvation,

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0531.htm

Spurgeon agrees with me.

I see what you are trying to say, but the fundamental problem is you are missing that we are in rebellion, by nature, against God. The man in your parable is not so cut off from his mother. A better comparison would be a man who had ignored everything good his mother had ever done and held her in contempt all his life. In prison he yells nothing but death threats at her when told she wants to visit. Regardless, she decides that despite his hate and rebellion toward her she will go visit him in prison, loves him unconditionally which changes his heart and makes him receptive to her. Of course the analogy breaks down as all do, but you get the gist.

That is not what scripture says.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Paul said the Gentiles "do by nature the things contained in the law". Those are good things. This is not rebellion.

This is simple grammar. It doesn’t say that every man looked or that every man would. Doesn't even say that every man COULD! Only that every man who did look was healed. Same with Christ. Not everyone will look or believe, but everyone who does will be saved.

Yes, it does, EVERY MAN who was bitten could look and be saved. But he had to look in faith when he was sick, not well. If he was well, he would not need to look.

Have you read the OT passages that are quoted (It’s really a mishmash of OT verses)? God is speaking of teaching his law to all those in the New Covenant Israel, those to whom he has given a new heart, as Jeremiah 31:33-34 makes clear. It is not talking about being taught scripture. Those who are taught are taught BY God, not about God.

God also told men to make themselves a new heart, which shows man is also involved in this process.

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

This being taught by the Father is analogous to the Father drawing. ALL the Father teaches will come to Christ. It is a divine instruction, not something we do.

For once we agree. No man would conceive of the gospel in a million years. If God did not reveal the gospel to man, we would all perish.

Let’s take your interpretation to it’s conclusion. If this teaching is the teaching from scripture, and Jesus says in verse 45, “Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.” Then EVERY person who has ever heard the gospel must be saved! Is that true? Of course not! Your interpretation falls short. Only those given to the Son will come. Those who are given to the Son are drawn by the Father. They are taught by the Father. They all come. They are all saved. They are all glorified.

Not everybody listens and learns, ask any teacher. Some students pay attention and study and make great grades, while other students goof off and do not pay attention and fail. It is the same with the word of God.

Those who listen and learn from God will come to Jesus. Those who refuse to listen will not.

The only options are either particular redemption/election or complete universalism.

No, Jesus died for everybody, but you must believe to receive this redemption.

No they didn’t. Not in this instance.

As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. - Jhn 6:66 NASB

And many people still refuse to come when called.

You are going outside the passage in question, to not only another book but another human author talking about a different subject.

The parable in Matthew is speaking about what the human call of the gospel is like. Those sending forth the call here are the servants of the King. This is analogous to Christians sharing the gospel with whoever will listen. They are publicly called to repent and believe. Yet only those who receive the divine call that opens the heart will actually believe.

God calls all men to be saved, but many refuse to come. The call is real and sincere to all men.

This "effectual" and "general" call stuff is the pure invention of men. You cannot show one word of scripture to support it.

This has been explained to you.

It has been explained to you. According to Calvinism, an unregenerated man cannot understand or believe the gospel, and a regenerated man doesn't need the gospel, he is already alive. Why does he need to hear the gospel if he is already alive?

All people refuse. That’s why God must open the heart as he did to Lydia.

The word of God teaches us. But it does more, it pierces or pricks (convicts) a man's heart as was shown in Acts 2. No one is denying that the word of God does not convict the heart of man, it certainly does.

No. I believe that the elect hear the gospel (first time or hundredth time, whenever God chooses) and when they hear it, God opens the heart and grants faith and repentance, enabling them to respond willingly to the gospel. The gospel is the means by which God brings salvation.

Well, no man can believe what he does not know. And no man is going to be convicted by the gospel unless he listens to it. But yes, the gospel teaches and convicts a man, bringing him to godly sorrow (repentance) but also teaching him to believe on Jesus for forgiveness.

How can the dead do anything? You are saying that the dead must respond first then Jesus makes them alive. Totally contradictory to what Jesus is saying. He says the Son first acts by imparting life, then they respond. “Those who hear, will live.” Sounds A LOT like those who are drawn will be raised. Those who are taught will come.

When Jesus speaks, the dead can hear it if they will listen. And those that hear it and believe it shall live.

You are only showing that you fail to understand both the doctrines of grace and Spurgeon. I'm not trying to be insulting or arrogant, but you really show little evidence of understanding what Calvinism teaches. Read Calvinist writings, not writings about Calvinism by Arminians.

I understand your doctrines quite well. In this case it is you that does not see the folly of your own doctrine. A unregenerate man cannot understand or believe the gospel, and a regenerate man doesn't need the gospel. It is a real Catch 22.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I understand your doctrines quite well. In this case it is you that does not see the folly of your own doctrine. A unregenerate man cannot understand or believe the gospel, and a regenerate man doesn't need the gospel. It is a real Catch 22.

I'd like to see a response to this.

 

[psalms109:31]

There is nothing wrong with dead we all are dead.

Unless you think God created you better than others.

The corpse can't suffer but yet a corpse suffers in hell for eternity.

You all just do not have the diffeniton of dead correctly. You are trying to understand death by what you see not what you don't see. We are to die to sin to be alive in Christ.

To die nothing is wrong with it.

Our body is dead and survives by eating if you do not eat live off of something you will die same thing spiritually.

I am dead yet I am not corpse and can eat.

I am dead Spiritually yet I can eat.

If you don't eat Christ flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you.You think that is ridiculous like the crowd following man did

Spurgeon said regeneration before faith is ridiculous you can't get any plainer than that.

That tells me that regeneration before faith before you eat is not a sound doctrine and I don't have to believe it

No one has to believe to be saved they have to believe in regeneration before faith but man is responsible for eating, He doesn't make you eat.

Yet everyone who has turned to Christ are the elect not having to believe regeneration before faith. I do see men trying to cram it down my thought and force feed people when regeneration before faith can't save anyone only Jesus can.

I praise you Father for hiding the truth from the wise and learned and revealing Jesus my salvation to me and all your children who are born again through your enduring word.

 

[Rippon]

Ps. : You said that you are dead spiritually. That means you are lost. Are you confused?

 

[convicted1]

Where do you find this in Scripture? A regenerated person is a believer in Christ, one whom Paul calls a saint. They already know who to go to. God is their father, and Christ is their Savior.
Give chapter verse for your position.

John 1:13
Romans 9:16
Phpp 2:13


Just for starters...

 

[Winman]

John 1:13
Romans 9:16
Phpp 2:13

Just for starters...

Willis, none of these scriptures supports your idea and definition of regeneration.

You are confusing regeneration with being taught, enlightened, or illuminated. A person can be illuminated where they understand the gospel, and even be brought to the point of repentance and fall away in unbelief and be lost. This is exactly what is explained in Hebrews 6.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

This passage speaks of persons who have been enlightened. They have heard the gospel and understand it. They have "tasted" of the heavenly gift and the word of God, but not "eaten". They have been brought to the point of repentance, but they have chosen to fall away in unbelief. This is very serious, and they will not be brought to this point again.

This is enlightenment, it is being taught, but it is not regeneration.

The word regeneration literally means to be made "alive again". This of course refutes Original Sin, but that is another argument for another time.

Nevertheless, the word regeneration does not mean to be taught or enlightened as you are using it. You are redefining the word.

A regenerated person has been born again, they are a new creature, they have passed from life to death and shall not come into condemnation. They are saved Willis.

You are either spiritually dead or alive, there is nothing in-between.

 

[psalms109:31]

Ps. : You said that you are dead spiritually. That means you are lost. Are you confused?

I have no Spiritual life in and of myself it comes from the words of Jesus.

His word is my Spirit and my life the living water, the words of life.

I will not have life if I do not continue to eat my Spiritual food that came down from heaven. I am depending on Christ for my Spiritual life.

 

[DHK]

John 1:13
Romans 9:16
Phpp 2:13


Just for starters...

Alright, you said:
Regeneration shows the sinner they are in need of being converted. Many are sick, yet don't believe they will die. Many have had chest pains, and yet, refused to go to their doctor, and died. Those who truly know they need healed go to their doctor seeking their assistance....

John 1:12,13 says:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
--There is nothing here that teaches "regeneration shows the sinner they are in need of being converted."
Rather those that believe on Christ are born of God.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
--God shows mercy--a timeless truth.
Nothing here about "regeneration showing the sinner that he is in need of being converted.

Phpp 2:13
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
--This verse is written to believers and speaks of the Christian life, not about salvation, regeneration, etc.
You strike out again. Sanctification is not the same as salvation. Phil.2:13 speaks of sanctification. The very next verse says:
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
--Hardly a salvation verse or one about regeneration, or the unsaved!

 

[convicted1]

You asked, I showed, and you refuted....this is the BB theme, no??