I am not Reformed.

[KJB1611reader]

Define 'preservance of saints.' First we must make sure we have the right term defintions.

Yes, a Christian can be backslidden and still be saved.

 

[Ben1445]

I am not to clear what you mean by "people who try to come any way but by Him are not His." In the context, He had already said that He lay down His life for the sheep. Then He tells some hearers that they do not believe because they are not of His sheep. If He had said, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe," then what you wrote about denying salvation to any who attempt to find God any other way would be true. But He didn't; He told them that they did not believe because they were not of His sheep.

In short, we don’t see the same thing being said because of the difference in our theology concerning Calvinism.
I don’t think Jesus is saying that they can never believe Jesus. The Calvinist says that they are not permitted to come.
What I see in Jesus’ teaching is that the Pharisees have a problem with the things Jesus is doing. They don’t believe what Jesus is doing is from God because they are not following God.
The thieves and robbers are the teachers who are teaching something other than what God wants, whether they appear to be close like the Pharisees or far away like the prophets of Baal.
This comment is made directly to certain Pharisees. Jesus is teaching them that His works and words are spiritually discerned.
Once again this statement means different things to me than it does to the Calvinist. I see Calvinism adding to it what is not meant to be there.

 

[JesusFan]

In short, we don’t see the same thing being said because of the difference in our theology concerning Calvinism.
I don’t think Jesus is saying that they can never believe Jesus. The Calvinist says that they are not permitted to come.
What I see in Jesus’ teaching is that the Pharisees have a problem with the things Jesus is doing. They don’t believe what Jesus is doing is from God because they are not following God.
The thieves and robbers are the teachers who are teaching something other than what God wants, whether they appear to be close like the Pharisees or far away like the prophets of Baal.
This comment is made directly to certain Pharisees. Jesus is teaching them that His works and words are spiritually discerned.
Once again this statement means different things to me than it does to the Calvinist. I see Calvinism adding to it what is not meant to be there.

No, God is not blocking any to come to Jesus, as their sin natures and desires do that quite well for them on their own

 

[Van]

I agree we have a choice. I don’t believe that God has to close His eyes and pretend not to know what is happening. God’s omniscience is not limited by our choices.
But I am not a deterministic thinker either. I don’t believe that knowing something makes it happen.
I don’t believe in the think it hard enough that it happens concept.
If God wants something to happen, He can make it happen or not make it happen. I don’t believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit when He told Adam not to. I don’t believe that God didn’t know that he would take the fruit or Jesus would not be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Did anyone say God was pretending not to know? Nope. Please address the actual issue.
Did anyone say God's omniscience is limited by our choices? Nope God seems to have limited His knowledge to provide us with actual choice.
To the contrary, I believe if God knows what we will choose, then we have no actual choice, only the non-choice of the only action God knows we will make.
Did anyone say if you think hard enough it will happen? Nope, please address the actual issue.
I believe God chose not to know if Adam would sin, to provide an actual choice to sin, and to hold Adam responsible for that sin.
Jesus was slain about 2000 years ago, well after the creation week and subsequent sin of Adam.

 

[Van]

By those standards you could say I am partially open theist and partially Calvinist.

Really, I’m neither.

I believe once saved, always saved, so I claim to be a one point Calvinist. And I believe people sin of their own volition, rather than sin because God predestined "whatsoever comes to pass."

 

[Ben1445]

Did anyone say God was pretending not to know? Nope. Please address the actual issue.
Did anyone say God's omniscience is limited by our choices? Nope God seems to have limited His knowledge to provide us with actual choice.
To the contrary, I believe if God knows what we will choose, then we have no actual choice, only the non-choice of the only action God knows we will make.
Did anyone say if you think hard enough it will happen? Nope, please address the actual issue.
I believe God chose not to know if Adam would sin, to provide an actual choice to sin, and to hold Adam responsible for that sin.
Jesus was slain about 2000 years ago, well after the creation week and subsequent sin of Adam.

I am addressing the issue. You are running in circles with your conclusions.
To sum up your belief to the best of my understanding…

If I choose, and God knows what I will choose, then I didn’t choose because God knows.

Logically, it follows that if I didn’t choose, God can’t know what I chose because He knows so I can’t choose.

Now that God doesn’t know what I choose anymore I can choose but now since God knows what I choose it’s not my choice anymore.
Anyone else dizzy yet?

It’s very clear to me that God knows what He didn’t choose. Whatever I choose, God knows about. It doesn’t mess up His plan to give me a full choice without closing His eyes.
God doesn’t choose for people to do wrong so that He can judge them.
You have a misunderstanding of the omniscience of God.
If God didn’t know that Adam would sin, why is Jesus the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? Just in case?

 

[Van]

I am addressing the issue. You are running in circles with your conclusions.
To sum up your belief to the best of my understanding…

If I choose, and God knows what I will choose, then I didn’t choose because God knows.

Logically, it follows that if I didn’t choose, God can’t know what I chose because He knows so I can’t choose.

Now that God doesn’t know what I choose anymore I can choose but now since God knows what I choose it’s not my choice anymore.
Anyone else dizzy yet?

It’s very clear to me that God knows what He didn’t choose. Whatever I choose, God knows about. It doesn’t mess up His plan to give me a full choice without closing His eyes.
God doesn’t choose for people to do wrong so that He can judge them.
You have a misunderstanding of the omniscience of God.
If God didn’t know that Adam would sin, why is Jesus the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? Just in case?

I do not think your conclusions are valid.
Did I say I did not choose because God knows what I will choose? Or did I say I did not choose because I had only one choice, which is a non-choice. Please address what I say. If I could choose something other that what God knows I will choose, then I would have a choice, but since God's knowledge is always accurate, then my choice is limited to a non-choice. This is not a difficult concept.

Returning to scripture, God says "Now I know" indicating He did not know before. Thus God can choose not to know our future actions beforehand, which is inherit omniscience.

 

[Ben1445]

I do not think your conclusions are valid.
Did I say I did not choose because God knows what I will choose? Or did I say I did not choose because I had only one choice, which is a non-choice. Please address what I say. If I could choose something other that what God knows I will choose, then I would have a choice, but since God's knowledge is always accurate, then my choice is limited to a non-choice. This is not a difficult concept.

It is a very limiting and finite concept.
Why can’t God know what you choose and actually give you a choice.
You explain it as if you have to be able to fool God as an option for having your own choice.

Returning to scripture, God says "Now I know" indicating He did not know before. Thus God can choose not to know our future actions beforehand, which is inherit omniscience.

James 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Scripture clearly identifies that passage of Scripture as dealing with Abraham and his faith.
To say God didn’t know what Abraham would do is to deny that He chose Abraham to be the father of the Jews.

 

[Van]

It is a very limiting and finite concept.
Why can’t God know what you choose and actually give you a choice.
You explain it as if you have to be able to fool God as an option for having your own choice.

James 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Scripture clearly identifies that passage of Scripture as dealing with Abraham and his faith.
To say God didn’t know what Abraham would do is to deny that He chose Abraham to be the father of the Jews.

I have answered your question, but you ask it again. A choice is only a choice if more than one result is possible. If God knows I will choose to sin, I cannot choose not to sin. I do not think this is difficult to understand.

 

[Ben1445]

I have answered your question, but you ask it again. A choice is only a choice if more than one result is possible. If God knows I will choose to sin, I cannot choose not to sin. I do not think this is difficult to understand.

You are still thinking in circles. God is not limited by us.
God can know. He told Adam not to sin. He knew Adam would Choose wrong.
Because He already knew that Adam would sin, even though God does not make any one sin, Jesus was prepared to be salvation for us before the world was created.

So your "God can't know what I choose or I don't have a choice," doesn't match with what God has told us about what He knows.

I don't think this is a difficult concept.
i understand WHAT you are saying. I don't know how you can say God does not know what we are going to do. That is what foreknowledge is. If God can see my thought before it comes to me (Psalm 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.), He would have to know that He doesn't want to know it and decide to not know it yet. But in order to decide whether or not He wants to know it, He would need to know what it is to decide.
You are either overthinking the whole thing or, you have not thought out all the implications of what you believe.
They are not compatible with Scripture on this topic. If they were, Jesus would not be salvation, before man sinned, Unless God made man sin. And He didn't.