How so?
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I and the Father are one
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George Antonios
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Meaning neither I, nor millions of others, needed the finer points of Greek grammar to figure that out or to prove it to others.
Lets see, the Father made the world through the Son. Now I am told some disagree that the Second Person of the Trinity operates according to the 1 Person of the Trinity. However, no explanation of Hebrews 1:2 was offered.
Further, in this chapter, in verse 10 and following, the Father continues to address the Son, and here ascribes to Him the actual Creation of the Universe. Note that the words are a quotation from Psalm 102:26-28. Again, the Deity of Jesus Christ is here attested to by the Father.[/QUOTE]
Here the assertion is made that since the Second Person of the Trinity is God the Son, He cannot act in subordination to the First Person of the Trinity. To this I say "why not?"
Does not Hebrews 1:9 indicate the Father is the God of the Son. This again indicates subordination.
All things came into being "through Him" meaning the He accomplished the creation at the direction of the Father.
As far as Psalm 102:26-28, this addresses that God the Son is eternal. Not at issue.
100% equal in some things (like being our eternal God) but operates in a subordinate role in the Trinity.
Further, in this chapter, in verse 10 and following, the Father continues to address the Son, and here ascribes to Him the actual Creation of the Universe. Note that the words are a quotation from Psalm 102:26-28. Again, the Deity of Jesus Christ is here attested to by the Father.[/QUOTE]
Here the assertion is made that since the Second Person of the Trinity is God the Son, He cannot act in subordination to the First Person of the Trinity. To this I say "why not?"
Does not Hebrews 1:9 indicate the Father is the God of the Son. This again indicates subordination.
All things came into being "through Him" meaning the He accomplished the creation at the direction of the Father.
As far as Psalm 102:26-28, this addresses that God the Son is eternal. Not at issue.
100% equal in some things (like being our eternal God) but operates in a subordinate role in the Trinity.
Nonsense, Hebrews 1:2
Yes, God the Son relinquished His "glory" to become God incarnate. But this has nothing to do with God the Son operating in subordination to the Father to accomplish the Triune God's purposes.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
there are many others who really love to study the Word of God in depth. If you are not one, then you should not bother readings posts like this!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
how so what?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Attacking the poster with claims like I did not reference Hebrews 1:2 seems pathetic to me.
Hebrews 1:9
John 1:1-3
I really want to have Van write a Systematic theology, would be "interesting"
How Calvin was wrong?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
sadly some cannot grasp this Truth, as others the Universal offer for salvation!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
30.I and my Father are one. He intended to meet the jeers of the wicked; for they might allege that the power of God did not at all belong to him, so that he could promise to his disciples that it would assuredly protect them. He therefore testifies that his affairs are so closely united to those of the Father, that the Father’s assistance will never be withheld from himself and his sheep The ancients made a wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is (ὁμοούσιος) of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father, so that whatever is done by Christ will be confirmed by the power of his Father.
Fiction. God the Son takes direction from the Father, thus operates in subordination to the Father. And the Holy Spirit takes direction from both God the Son and God the Father.
For example Hebrews 1:1-2 says God the Father made the world through God the Son. Therefore God the Son was utilized by God the Father to accomplish His purpose. This pattern can be found again and again in scripture.
God the Son is fully equal in His divine nature, His divine essence, but operates in subordination, both before the incarnation and during the incarnation. Any yes, God the Son did not grasp equality with God but submitted to becoming in the likeness of a human, thus operating from a more subordinate condition.
A Note of Clarification
SBG posted the informative OP of this thread.
I commented, "all this to say One God in Three Persons?"
SBG apparently took this question as attempted ridicule, and thus responded with disdain. My bad, I was not clear I wanted discussion of whatever other insights were revealed in his study.
SBG posted the informative OP of this thread.
I commented, "all this to say One God in Three Persons?"
SBG apparently took this question as attempted ridicule, and thus responded with disdain. My bad, I was not clear I wanted discussion of whatever other insights were revealed in his study.
Matthew 10:40
“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
Mar 9:37
“Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”
Thus the Father sent the Son, so the Son was operating in subordination to the Father.
Luke 4:18
“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
And here we see that the Father "anointed" the Son, again showing subordination.
John 4:34
Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
Again and again scripture clearly teaches Christ was subordinate to the Father while incarnate. But other verses teach God the Son takes direction from the Father even before the incarnation.
Here is an example of pre-incarnate subordination.
John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
The pre-incarnate God the Son took the God the Father's direction before the incarnation.
“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
Mar 9:37
“Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”
Thus the Father sent the Son, so the Son was operating in subordination to the Father.
Luke 4:18
“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
And here we see that the Father "anointed" the Son, again showing subordination.
John 4:34
Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
Again and again scripture clearly teaches Christ was subordinate to the Father while incarnate. But other verses teach God the Son takes direction from the Father even before the incarnation.
Here is an example of pre-incarnate subordination.
John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
The pre-incarnate God the Son took the God the Father's direction before the incarnation.
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