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Featured I and the Father are one

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 9, 2020.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I suggest that you take time to study the language that the Bible was written, and then you will have a better understanding of what it actually says.

    There are some, even those who are Greek scholars, who have the misunderstanding of the use of the Greek prepositions. In John 1:3, for example, where we have the Greek preposition, "dia" used, which is usually translated as "by", and in "through", as you say, "agent". But, it is very clear from places like Galatians 1:1, and Hebrews 2:10, where it is used in the former for both Jesus and the Father as united; and the latter for the Father Himself, that "dia" does not always have the meaning of "agent". In the Galatians text it is understood as "with", as both Jesus and the Father are described in the one use of "dia", which is the original meaning of the Greek preposition, from Homer's time. The place in Hebrews it is used for, "the author", and not "agent". Since The Three Persons in the Trinity were JOINTLY Creators, the use of "dia" is best understood in Creation as "with".
     
    #101 SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 1:2 indicates God the Son took direction from the Father to create the world.
     
    #102 Van, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Just like many other Calvinists, SBG wastes words claiming I am unqualified.
    Did anyone say "dia" always used used to indicating agency? Nope.
    Did Hebrews 1:2 says the world was made, with or through God the Son?

    Whenever scripture indicates a posters view is in error, many times the mistaken poster will rewrite the verse.
    Hebrews 1:2 indicates God the Son was operating at the behest of the Father, taking direction from the Father.
     
    #103 Van, Oct 13, 2020
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
    #104 SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 1:2 indicates God the Son was operating at the behest of the Father, taking direction from the Father.
    Thus scripture teaches God the Son operated in a subservient way before the incarnation occurred.
     
    #105 Van, Oct 13, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Trinity always agree with each other, as no Boss, All are the Boss!
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2020
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so, based your your own reasoning, Jesus Christ can never be coequal to the Father, not can He be Yahweh, which by definition means "eternal and immutable", and "self-existing", that is not depending on another. As the LXX has it for Exodus 3:14, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which is "I am the Eternal One". Hence, Jesus Christ IS as much as Almighty God, coequal, coessential, and coeternal, as The Father and Holy Spirit.
     
    #107 SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why are you wasting words making false claims about my view.
    If God the Son did not think equality with God was a thing to be grasped, it follows that God the Son is equal to both the Father and Holy Spirit in His divinity. God the Son is Yahweh. God the Son is eternal.
    None of that diversion is in dispute.
    Did God the Son operate in a subservient way to God the Father before the incarnation? Yes, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3. God the Son took direction from God the Father.
     
    #108 Van, Oct 13, 2020
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    both NT passages you quote do NOT show what you want them to
     
    #109 SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    What do you mean by essence? Is your essence time related?

    I believe the Father and the Son are of the same essence however I do not believe that Christ in the days of his flesh were of the same essence.

    Today I do not believe the Christ the Son of the Living God, Jesus, by name can die yet I believe for about thirty three years that same Jesus could die and I do not believe the Father can or could die.

    Now what do I mean by Father?

    Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God; and ye have not known Him, and I have known Him, and if I say that I have not known Him, I shall be like you -- speaking falsely; but I have known Him, and His word I keep; Abraham, your father, was glad that he might see my day; and he saw, and did rejoice.' John 8:54-56

    I believe the one they were calling their God was the Father. Where was the Son of the Father?

    And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    How was that preaching the gospel unto Abraham? How did Abraham see the day of Christ?

    Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    What did Abraham believe concerning that? He believed the Gospel, because he saw the day of Christ.

    Heb 11:18,19 YLT By (To) faith Abraham hath offered up Isaac, being tried, and the only begotten he did offer up who did receive the promises, reckoning that even out of the dead God is able to raise up, whence also in a figure he did receive him.

    Who in figure did he receive? Who is the one and only to date who has been raised out of the dead to die no more, no more to return to corruption?

    He saw: God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee. 'And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David; Acts 13:33,34 YLT

    This is the day, the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. Ps 118:24 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18
     
    #110 percho, Oct 13, 2020
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How does God boss God?
     
    #111 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2020
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Right, the world was not created through God the Son.... Got it
     
    #112 Van, Oct 14, 2020
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    at last!
     
    #113 SavedByGrace, Oct 14, 2020
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Divine essence refers to God's god-like characteristics. God is spirit. God is love. God is eternal. God is immutable - His character and attributes never change. God is all powerful (omnipotent). God is just. God is merciful. Certainly God the Son and the Holy Spirit are equal to God the Father in these divine attributes.
     
    #114 Van, Oct 14, 2020
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Y1 now suggests, because he hides in ambiguity, that God the Son does not do what the Father tells Him to do. I kid you not.
     
    #115 Van, Oct 14, 2020
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, behold SBG view that scripture does not mean what it says. "at last."
     
    #116 Van, Oct 14, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, rather that there is no Big boss among the Trinity!
     
    #117 Yeshua1, Oct 14, 2020
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    indeed, people like Van just don't get it!
     
    #118 SavedByGrace, Oct 14, 2020
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Functional subordination happened while Jesus agreed to the limitations of becoming a human being!
     
    #119 Yeshua1, Oct 14, 2020
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    not quite. Jesus took upon Himself the "nature" of humans, but remained the eternal God He is, thus becoming the God-Man
     
    #120 SavedByGrace, Oct 14, 2020
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