I challenge any evangelical to prove to me that Christians can be responsible for folks burning in h

[Scarlett O.]

Should God give anyone His redemptive grace, Scarlett?
Would God be evil to have ordained the perpetuation of Adam's fallen offspring and cast us all away to damnation for the constant rebellion of all mankind against the Creator?
Would you care to lodge a complaint against the Creator because He chose not to end humanities existence when He chose to let Adam and Eve continue to live on Earth and have children?
If you think God has chosen unwisely, please lodge you complaint before the Almighty that we might read your complaint against Him.

Is God unjust to ordain that humanity might populate the earth, even though they act in rebellion and it brings their judgment of eternal damnation?

Speak your complaint.

I didn't enter this thread to debate Calvinism.

I entered this thread to have a conversation with Yeshua1 who is a self-proclaimed reformed Christian who speaks in this thread like a non-Cal.

I am just trying to tell him that he does not speak like a Cal.

That's all I am here for and since he is not responding anymore, I am done as well.

I am not reformed and cannot be convinced otherwise as the reformed here cannot be convinced otherwise. I don't debate the tenets of the reformed. It's like beating a dead horse. No one convinces the other.

 

[InTheLight]

I didn't enter this thread to debate Calvinism.

I entered this thread to have a conversation with Yeshua1 who is a self-proclaimed reformed Christian who speaks in this thread like a non-Cal.

I am just trying to tell him that he does not speak like a Cal.

That's all I am here for and since he is not responding anymore, I am done as well.

I am not reformed and cannot be convinced otherwise as the reformed here cannot be convinced otherwise. I don't debate the tenets of the reformed. It's like beating a dead horse. No one convinces the other.

But you have to admit the cleverness of AustinC's strawmen. By putting them in the form of a question rather than stating them outright as your beliefs, he takes the raw edge off and he sounds less strident.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[kyredneck]

Its definitely not a silly thread. It is a stupid thread.

The fact that you show your duplicity by awarding a 'winner' to post #36 proves that the OP hits the nail on the head. You actually believe the blood of those burning in hell can be on our hands.

 

[AustinC]

I didn't enter this thread to debate Calvinism.

I entered this thread to have a conversation with Yeshua1 who is a self-proclaimed reformed Christian who speaks in this thread like a non-Cal.

I am just trying to tell him that he does not speak like a Cal.

That's all I am here for and since he is not responding anymore, I am done as well.

I am not reformed and cannot be convinced otherwise as the reformed here cannot be convinced otherwise. I don't debate the tenets of the reformed. It's like beating a dead horse. No one convinces the other.

You didn't even attempt to understand or answer my question and observation.
Perhaps you are blind to the accusation you make to God about His Divine Sovereignty over His Creation and His perfect will in accomplishing exactly what He determines.

Your claim against Yeshua belied the complaint you would voice to God if you accepted that God is Sovereign over every aspect of His Creation.

I ask you, then, to evaluate your statement and see the veiled complaint you bring to God in accusation. (No doubt you will initially deny such a complaint, but if you truly look into your statement, you will see the accusation and complaint you make to God, if God is Sovereign over all.

 

[InTheLight]

You didn't even attempt to understand or answer my question and observation.
Perhaps you are blind to the accusation you make to God about His Divine Sovereignty over His Creation and His perfect will in accomplishing exactly what He determines.

C'mon, man. You've got to up your strawman game. Here's how:

Instead of saying "perhaps you are blind", say something like, "it seems you are blind" or "it looks like you are blind." Then if someone calls you on it, you can say, "I never said she was blind I only said that it 'seems' like she's blind."

I will give you high marks for condescension. "Perhaps you are blind to the accusation you make to God", quietly infers that you are fully aware of God's attributes and it's a shame that the other person isn't. Nicely played, with just a hint of pride (but not too much to spoil it.)

 

[Scarlett O.]

You didn't even attempt to understand or answer my question and observation.
Perhaps you are blind to the accusation you make to God about His Divine Sovereignty over His Creation and His perfect will in accomplishing exactly what He determines.

Your claim against Yeshua belied the complaint you would voice to God if you accepted that God is Sovereign over every aspect of His Creation.

I ask you, then, to evaluate your statement and see the veiled complaint you bring to God in accusation. (No doubt you will initially deny such a complaint, but if you truly look into your statement, you will see the accusation and complaint you make to God, if God is Sovereign over all.

~ le sigh ~

You claim I am grieving God, questioning him, and complaining against him.

One more time, my questioning was against Yeshua1 for his claiming to be reformed but in describing his beliefs, he is not reformed.

He kept claiming that people who go to hell "choose that". I kept telling him via questions that how can that be under the reformed position since Calvinists don't believe in free will.

I, PERSONALLY, do not have a complaint against God. I am quite happy with the God of the Bible. Everything he does is perfect. I am not reformed and never will be.

For the last time - my issue was with Yeshua1 and his saying he is reformed out of one side of his mouth and speaking as a non-Cal out of the other side of his mouth.

I have no complaint against God.

 

[Reynolds]

The fact that you show your duplicity by awarding a 'winner' to post #36 proves that the OP hits the nail on the head. You actually believe the blood of those burning in hell can be on our hands.

You dont think Scripture is a winner?

 

[Yeshua1]

I didn't enter this thread to debate Calvinism.

I entered this thread to have a conversation with Yeshua1 who is a self-proclaimed reformed Christian who speaks in this thread like a non-Cal.

I am just trying to tell him that he does not speak like a Cal.

That's all I am here for and since he is not responding anymore, I am done as well.

I am not reformed and cannot be convinced otherwise as the reformed here cannot be convinced otherwise. I don't debate the tenets of the reformed. It's like beating a dead horse. No one convinces the other.

Among we Calvinist, there are some who hold to God actively predestined the lost to be reprobated, and others who seem Him active in predestinating saved, but permit lost to stay as they are!

 

[kyredneck]

You dont think Scripture is a winner?

It's a gross misapplication of the Ezekiel passage to place the blood of those burning in hell on the backs of Christians. You further show your dishonesty, or, are you just being stupid?

 

[Reformed]

Paul Washer said they were going to hell because of the prayer to ask Jesus in their hearts.

Come on. I have listened to enough Paul Washer to know your comment is exactly what the drive-by media does when they want to smear someone. Paul Washer has made the point that the sinners prayer saves no one. I agree. It does not. He has also made the point that saying the prayer without genuine conversion (repentance and faith) is not only worthless, but it deceives the person saying the prayer into thinking they are saved. That is far cry from what you wrote.

 

[Reynolds]

It's a gross misapplication of the Ezekiel passage to place the blood of those burning in hell on the backs of Christians. You further show your dishonesty, or, are you just being stupid?

I just liked some scripture and it riles you up like a cat in a coon trap.

 

[Yeshua1]

Come on. I have listened to enough Paul Washer to know your comment is exactly what the drive-by media does when they want to smear someone. Paul Washer has made the point that the sinners prayer saves no one. I agree. It does not. He has also made the point that saying the prayer without genuine conversion (repentance and faith) is not only worthless, but it deceives the person saying the prayer into thinking they are saved. That is far cry from what you wrote.

He wants us to examine ourselves, and to make sure that we are really saved and in the faith!

 

[Yeshua1]

~ le sigh ~

You claim I am grieving God, questioning him, and complaining against him.

One more time, my questioning was against Yeshua1 for his claiming to be reformed but in describing his beliefs, he is not reformed.

He kept claiming that people who go to hell "choose that". I kept telling him via questions that how can that be under the reformed position since Calvinists don't believe in free will.

I, PERSONALLY, do not have a complaint against God. I am quite happy with the God of the Bible. Everything he does is perfect. I am not reformed and never will be.

For the last time - my issue was with Yeshua1 and his saying he is reformed out of one side of his mouth and speaking as a non-Cal out of the other side of his mouth.

I have no complaint against God.

Where am I speaking as a non cal?

 

[kyredneck]

This is a silly thread. No one holds to the premise

I think the majority of you free willers holds to the premise. Why else would you object to Monergism/Soveriegn Grace so strongly and have your silly list?

 

[Reynolds]

I think the majority of you free willers holds to the premise. Why else would you object to Monergism/Soveriegn Grace so strongly and have your silly list?

The only problem I have is with Calvinists, not Calvinism. Since Calvnism crept back in the seminaries, a new breed of Calvinists has emerged. They hold this rabid desire to convert all non-cals. Their life revolves around Calvinism.

 

[kyredneck]

I just liked some scripture ....

Yea, right.

If you were honest you'd admit that you agreed that the Ezekiel passage shows that we [Christians] can be held accountable for the blood of those we fail to warn.

But you're hot going to be honest about it, are you?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Where am I speaking as a non cal?

When you say the lost have a "choice" to go to hell or not. You say those going to hell "chose" to go there. When you say God "permits" the lost to stay that way as if he let's them have their way - letting them decide between being saved and going to hell.

I don't know a single reformed person who believes that God gives those going to hell a choice in the matter.

Every time anyone anyone touts the tenets of Calvinism here it is that God hated the lost in the womb and predestined them to hell before they were born - He never gives them a chance or choice.

You claim the opposite. Can you not see that you are saying the opposite?

I don't want to banter this back and forth any longer. I am not making a dent anywhere. Let it be sufficient to say you have your beliefs and they are your own.

 

[Yeshua1]

When you say the lost have a "choice" to go to hell or not. You say those going to hell "chose" to go there. When you say God "permits" the lost to stay that way as if he let's them have their way - letting them decide between being saved and going to hell.

I don't know a single reformed person who believes that God gives those going to hell a choice in the matter.

Every time anyone anyone touts the tenets of Calvinism here it is that God hated the lost in the womb and predestined them to hell before they were born - He never gives them a chance or choice.

You claim the opposite. Can you not see that you are saying the opposite?

I don't want to banter this back and forth any longer. I am not making a dent anywhere. Let it be sufficient to say you have your beliefs and they are your own.

We Calvinists would hold that God sees all humanity in Adam and already under the curse and judgement of the Fall, and he has decided to save unto Himself His own faithful elect remnant, and those lost in sins do and have made a "free will decision" to reject Christ to save them!

 

[Revmitchell]

Come on. I have listened to enough Paul Washer to know your comment is exactly what the drive-by media does when they want to smear someone. Paul Washer has made the point that the sinners prayer saves no one. I agree. It does not. He has also made the point that saying the prayer without genuine conversion (repentance and faith) is not only worthless, but it deceives the person saying the prayer into thinking they are saved. That is far cry from what you wrote.

"That sinners prayer has sent more people to hell than anything on the face of the earth" it starts about the 1:19 mark. Sorry for your ignorance and error.

 

[Reynolds]

Yea, right.

If you were honest you'd admit that you agreed that the Ezekiel passage shows that we [Christians] can be held accountable for the blood of those we fail to warn.

But you're hot going to be honest about it, are you?

I have been honest. I dont know if Christians are responsible for the souls of those we neglected to witness to. Never said we were. Never said we are not. If we are, it would be a sin that is forgiven like the rest of the sins we commit or omit.