I challenge any evangelical to prove to me that Christians can be responsible for folks burning in h

[Particular]

That one caught my attention too.

He is reading it in the word “all” in 2 Peter 3:9

Thank you. I knew he had 2 Peter 3:9 posted, but for the life of me I could not see such a claim in that verse.
Truthfully, I still see no connection to the Lambs book of Life in that verse.

 

[atpollard]

Thank you. I knew he had 2 Peter 3:9 posted, but for the life of me I could not see such a claim in that verse.
Truthfully, I still see no connection to the Lambs book of Life in that verse.

It is a two step logical process.

[2Pe 3:9 NASB] 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1. The Lord wishes for all to come to repentance (and all means everyone without exception that has yet to be born in the context of 2 Peter 3).
2. If the LORD wants them to repent and be saved, then their name must be in the book written before the foundation of the world of all those that the Lord wants to save. (It is implied in ‘free will’ that only their rejection of salvation will later blot their name out of that book).

 

[timtofly]

Where does God say this?

The 5th chapter of Revelation explains the Lamb's book of life. At the end it says that every creature above the earth, on the earth, and below the earth, which indicates all of time, acknowledge the act of the Lamb, and the ability to open the book.

A few post up mentions Revelation and there are a few other verses in Revelation that mention those names not found in the book of life. God removed those names. The interpretation that says they were never there, is wrong. The reason God removes some names is because they let the curse of Adam's punishment mark them instead of having their name in the book of life. It was their choice, not God’s. As pointed out in 2 Peter 3:8 that God is not willing that anyone should parish, but all come to repentance. To say some were never entered is wrong. And the Lamb's book of life is still sealed, since before the beginning of the world. It has not been added to nor names removed. And the only names that will be removed are those who choose the mark, and those who at the last Great White Throne judgment continue to reject God. God then pronounces that God never knew them. Matthew 7:23

 

[timtofly]

It is a two step logical process.

[2Pe 3:9 NASB] 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1. The Lord wishes for all to come to repentance (and all means everyone without exception that has yet to be born in the context of 2 Peter 3).
2. If the LORD wants them to repent and be saved, then their name must be in the book written before the foundation of the world of all those that the Lord wants to save. (It is implied in ‘free will’ that only their rejection of salvation will later blot their name out of that book).

That is what the Atonement was for. John 3:16. God loves all the world, not just those who trust in Him.

 

[Particular]

The 5th chapter of Revelation explains the Lamb's book of life. At the end it says that every creature above the earth, on the earth, and below the earth, which indicates all of time, acknowledge the act of the Lamb, and the ability to open the book.

A few post up mentions Revelation and there are a few other verses in Revelation that mention those names not found in the book of life. God removed those names. The interpretation that says they were never there, is wrong. The reason God removes some names is because they let the curse of Adam's punishment mark them instead of having their name in the book of life. It was their choice, not God’s. As pointed out in 2 Peter 3:8 that God is not willing that anyone should parish, but all come to repentance. To say some were never entered is wrong. And the Lamb's book of life is still sealed, since before the beginning of the world. It has not been added to nor names removed. And the only names that will be removed are those who choose the mark, and those who at the last Great White Throne judgment continue to reject God. God then pronounces that God never knew them. Matthew 7:23

Please provide each passage where you think God says all humanity is written in the Lambs book of Life. What you wrote above is vague. I would like to read the exact passages of scripture that make up your argument.
I have never heard anyone make your argument before so I find it hard to see your position being obvious in scripture when no one else has made the claims you are making.

 

[Iconoclast]

There are other possible uses, but I hold to #2. Even though it will appear to create conflict with verses such as John 1:29, I dont believe them as true conflict. Many historical Calvinists will agree with me, many will disagree.

Why do you believe there appears to be a conflict with jn1 :29?
Also what do you think that verse teaches?

 

[timtofly]

Please provide each passage where you think God says all humanity is written in the Lambs book of Life. What you wrote above is vague. I would like to read the exact passages of scripture that make up your argument.
I have never heard anyone make your argument before so I find it hard to see your position being obvious in scripture when no one else has made the claims you are making.

Revelation 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now the saved are singing this song, because they died in Christ. They are there under the alter: Revelation 6:9-11.

Later, Revelation 5:13
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

This happened before the Lamb started unsealing the book. What book? Revelation 5:1-5.
"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

This can only be the Lamb's book of life. It was started after the Atonement and the vail of the temple was rent. It was for all the world. John 1:29, John 3:16 This was God’s plan since before the beginning of the world. It contains the names of all humanity from Day 6 to the last human born on earth. No name was left out, because the fact as pointed out by Moses, names have to be removed. Exodus 33:31-33

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

The Lamb's book of life was sealed at this time. The book is still sealed. There have been no names added nor removed from the time of the Atonement, but not just 30 AD. The Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. The Post glorified body of Jesus Christ was there in the beginning just as John in John 1 claimed. Everyone written in the book, both sinner, and redeemed. Only at the end of the church age when the 7th Seal is opened will God begin removing names. The first will be all those who have accepted the mark of the beast. Then at the Great White Throne judgment will be the final roll call, and all the names of those rejecting Christ will be removed. Matthew 7:23
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

God knew all in the Lamb's book of life, everyone 2 Peter 3:9. After being thrown into the lake of fire and removed from the Lamb's book of life, God stopped knowing their very existence, just like those sins of those redeemed.

 

[Particular]

Revelation 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now the saved are singing this song, because they died in Christ. They are there under the alter: Revelation 6:9-11.

Later, Revelation 5:13
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

This happened before the Lamb started unsealing the book. What book? Revelation 5:1-5.
"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

This can only be the Lamb's book of life. It was started after the Atonement and the vail of the temple was rent. It was for all the world. John 1:29, John 3:16 This was God’s plan since before the beginning of the world. It contains the names of all humanity from Day 6 to the last human born on earth. No name was left out, because the fact as pointed out by Moses, names have to be removed. Exodus 33:31-33

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

The Lamb's book of life was sealed at this time. The book is still sealed. There have been no names added nor removed from the time of the Atonement, but not just 30 AD. The Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. The Post glorified body of Jesus Christ was there in the beginning just as John in John 1 claimed. Everyone written in the book, both sinner, and redeemed. Only at the end of the church age when the 7th Seal is opened will God begin removing names. The first will be all those who have accepted the mark of the beast. Then at the Great White Throne judgment will be the final roll call, and all the names of those rejecting Christ will be removed. Matthew 7:23
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

God knew all in the Lamb's book of life, everyone 2 Peter 3:9. After being thrown into the lake of fire and removed from the Lamb's book of life, God stopped knowing their very existence, just like those sins of those redeemed.

You jump to some huge conclusions by prooftexting your theory of end times into the text. Observation of the text reveals that your assertion is not found in the text, but is instead found in your assumptions. Not one of the scriptures you provide actually states what you are asserting.
Thank you for sharing the scripture you are using to connect your ideas. It seems you are grasping at straws with your theory.

 

[Reynolds]

Why do you believe there appears to be a conflict with jn1 :29?
Also what do you think that verse teaches?

I do not believe there is a conflict, but the verse is often used to suggest a conflict in Arminian theology.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do not believe there is a conflict, but the verse is often used to suggest a conflict in Arminian theology.

What do you think the verse teaches?

All men ever born?

Not the Jew only, but all people everywhere?

Not the Jew only, but everyone who believes, Jew or Gentile?

 

[Reynolds]

What do you think the verse teaches?

All men ever born?

Not the Jew only, but all people everywhere?

Not the Jew only, but everyone who believes, Jew or Gentile?

Everyone who believes and submits to the Lordship of Christ.
Of course this is probably headed directly to the "potential atonement" debate.

 

[timtofly]

You jump to some huge conclusions by prooftexting your theory of end times into the text. Observation of the text reveals that your assertion is not found in the text, but is instead found in your assumptions. Not one of the scriptures you provide actually states what you are asserting.
Thank you for sharing the scripture you are using to connect your ideas. It seems you are grasping at straws with your theory.

I am not grasping at anything. It is not a theory. It is Scripture and denying Scripture is not very wise. No one is responsible for any lost soul, as each individual has to make their own personal choice. Believers answer to God for not telling others when God specifically tells them to. In obedience to God, I have pointed out the truth of Scripture. It is up to the reader to accept or reject the Truth.

 

[Particular]

I am not grasping at anything. It is not a theory. It is Scripture and denying Scripture is not very wise. No one is responsible for any lost soul, as each individual has to make their own personal choice. Believers answer to God for not telling others when God specifically tells them to. In obedience to God, I have pointed out the truth of Scripture. It is up to the reader to accept or reject the Truth.

You are grasping at straws. You are cherry picking scripture and forcing it in to your predesigned eschatology.
Since you have a narrative, you look for verses to support your narrative... even if those verses have no contextual connection.

I disagree with your contention that God wrote down all humanities names in the book of life and humans get their names erased by not believing.

 

[timtofly]

You are grasping at straws. You are cherry picking scripture and forcing it in to your predesigned eschatology.
Since you have a narrative, you look for verses to support your narrative... even if those verses have no contextual connection.

I disagree with your contention that God wrote down all humanities names in the book of life and humans get their names erased by not believing.

Then all you can do is disagree, because I am not the one grasping for proof.

 

[AustinC]

Then all you can do is disagree, because I am not the one grasping for proof.

You haven't provided proof. You have provided verses that don't prove your assertion.

 

[timtofly]

You haven't provided proof. You have provided verses that don't prove your assertion.

If that is your interpretation, then it seems you have made up your mind on the topic.

 

[Particular]

If that is your interpretation, then it seems you have made up your mind on the topic.

That makes two of us.

 

[timtofly]

That makes two of us.

According to your logic, you do not even have proof your name is even written down. You interpret verses hoping your interpretation is correct. At least I claim that all names are written down regardless of any proof. Or at least you claim, I have no proof. You interpret all, according to the way you call it.

 

[AustinC]

If that is your interpretation, then it seems you have made up your mind on the topic.

It's my observation of what you have posted. And, yes, I have spoke my mind.

 

[Iconoclast]

Everyone who believes and submits to the Lordship of Christ.
Of course this is probably headed directly to the "potential atonement" debate.

Going to continue on a new thread....world 3:16