I Corinthians 1:7 shows that gifts continue

[music4Him]

You know what really surprises me? That latly the thread will be silent after Link makes a post... then I praise Link for the points he makes... then DHK will come in and post back to Link.

DHK said:
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That is right. You have it:
So that ye (Corinthians) come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

It doesn't say anything about anyone else except the Corinthian believers. It was Paul writing to them. For just a few verses later he says:

1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Are you also among the house of Chloe?
DHK
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DHK,
The house of Chloe was the ones who told Paul that something was wrong among the Corinths. So eveidently they held some respect with Paul.
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Keep preaching it Link~ you have made very strong points with scripture. raise: :Fish:

 

[music4Him]

1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Chloe in the Greek
G5514
Χλόη
Chloē
khlo'-ay
Feminine of apparently a primary word; "green"; Chloe, a Christian female: - Chloe.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

You know what really surprises me? That latly the thread will be silent after Link makes a post... then I praise Link for the points he makes... then DHK will come in and post back to Link.

DHK said:
----------------------------------------------------------------
That is right. You have it:
So that ye (Corinthians) come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

It doesn't say anything about anyone else except the Corinthian believers. It was Paul writing to them. For just a few verses later he says:

1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Are you also among the house of Chloe?
DHK
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DHK,
The house of Chloe was the ones who told Paul that something was wrong among the Corinths. So eveidently they held some respect with Paul.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are right.
Here is the situation more accurately.
Paul had heard certain things that had been going on in the church at Corinth. Some of those things were so bad that they had been widely spread and had becocme common knowledge by most everyone. Example:

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you" (1Cor.5:1)

Then he heard reports from specific people coming from certain households such as Chloe's"

1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Finally, the church itself wrote Paul a letter outlining the various problems that they were having and asked him to intervene or at least to give advice as to what they should do:

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:...

My position in all of this has been consistent. Paul is writing a letter to the Corinthians. He points out the situation in that church at that time. Here is what he says about the Corinthian church in 55 A.D.

1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
--He does not say that your church or my church or any other church comes behind in no gift. He said that their church, the Corinthian Church, came behind in no gift. That is they had all the gifts available to them. We don't. They do. They also had all the other problems that are mentioned in each chapter of 1Corinthians, including those that denied the very resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (chapter 15). Are there members in your church that deny the resurrection also?

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

How is it that you want to apply one part of the letter to your church but not the other?
DHK

 

[DHK]

A fair warning: This is a long thread. It will close at thirty pages. A similar thread can be opened up by anyone interested.
DHK

 

[Link]

You are right.
They also had all the other problems that are mentioned in each chapter of 1Corinthians, including those that denied the very resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (chapter 15). Are there members in your church that deny the resurrection also?

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

How is it that you want to apply one part of the letter to your church but not the other?
DHK

I Corinthians warnings about fornicators, fellowshipping with the ungodly who call themselves brothers, denying the resurrection, etc. all apply today. There are plenty of churches that say nothign if they know a couple attending is in sexual sin, or if someone in the congregation is a swindler, and will have everyone eat communion with those people. There are some extreme preterists who do not believe we will rise, for example. So do the instructions on church meetings and spiritual gifts.

It would seem from the quote above that you are implying that I Corinthians 15 should be a part of I Corinthians, since your argument is that the letter was written unto the church of God which is at Corinth (leaving out the part about it being written to all who call uponthe name of the Lord Jesus Christ as well.)

In a previous thread, you argued that I Corinthians was likely a separate epistle or part of a separate epistle. Did you change your stance? I Corinthians 1:7 is a good argument in favor of chapter 15 being a part of the book, since at the beginning, Paul mentions what he goes into toward the end of the book, spiritual gifts and the end of the age. In verse 7, it is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, though chapter 15 focuses more on the resurrection.

 

[DHK]

I Corinthians warnings about fornicators, fellowshipping with the ungodly who call themselves brothers, denying the resurrection, etc. all apply today. There are plenty of churches that say nothign if they know a couple attending is in sexual sin, or if someone in the congregation is a swindler, and will have everyone eat communion with those people. There are some extreme preterists who do not believe we will rise, for example. So do the instructions on church meetings and spiritual gifts.

It would seem from the quote above that you are implying that I Corinthians 15 should be a part of I Corinthians, since your argument is that the letter was written unto the church of God which is at Corinth (leaving out the part about it being written to all who call uponthe name of the Lord Jesus Christ as well.)

In a previous thread, you argued that I Corinthians was likely a separate epistle or part of a separate epistle. Did you change your stance? I Corinthians 1:7 is a good argument in favor of chapter 15 being a part of the book, since at the beginning, Paul mentions what he goes into toward the end of the book, spiritual gifts and the end of the age. In verse 7, it is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, though chapter 15 focuses more on the resurrection.

We learn from principles:
Fornication is wrong.
Christ is risen.
Someday we also shall rise.

However we also learn the historical condition of the church at that time and we must be able to distinguish between history and the truth that Paul is teaching.
Paul heard from the house of Chloe. That is history.
The Corinthian church denied the resurrection. That is history.
The Corinthian church was blessed to have all the gifts. That is history.

These things are not difficult to figure out. But if you want to go on twisting Scripture to fit into your own scheme of theology, then keep on wrongly dividing the Word of Truth.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

Amen~ Link :flower:

DHK suggested:
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--He does not say that your church or my church or any other church comes behind in no gift. He said that their church, the Corinthian Church, came behind in no gift. That is they had all the gifts available to them. We don't. They do. They also had all the other problems that are mentioned in each chapter of 1Corinthians, including those that denied the very resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (chapter 15). Are there members in your church that deny the resurrection also?
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As a reminder Pauls letter was to straighten out the Corithians and set the "Church" straight on many issues including the resurrection and the proper use of the gifts. What was written for the Corithians was written for all the churches for all the disciples who sat under the teaching of the Word. Are you saying that there was a different set of rules for other churches? Wouldn't that cause strife among the church and believers?
The bible is also an instruction book and Paul is instructing the Corinth church how the church should operate. To which this is why Paul wrote the letter to stop contentions among the brethren.
Also your too late in saying that "we" don't have the gifts of the Spirit today. Speak for yourself cause I along with many others have operated in the gifts of the Spirit that are mentioned in (1Cor.12), but not as I will, but as the Spirit wills.

1Cor. 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

On the question you asked about the resurrection... We are normal bible believeing people and our church believes in the resurrection. :flower:

 

[DHK]

Are you saying that there was a different set of rules for other churches? Wouldn't that cause strife among the church and believers?

No, the rules are all the same. They are black and white, contained in the Word of God called the Bible. However, we do not have Chloe here today, neither Sylvester, nor Epaphroditus, or Jason the coppersmith. Those people existed in Paul's day not in ours. The problems of the Corinthians were of the church at Corinth: not of those at Philippi, or at Ephesus, or at Crete, or at Colosse, or Thessalonica, or at any of the other churches mentioned in the New Testament. The problems that the Corinthians faced were peculiar only to the Corinthian Church as 1Cor.7:1 indicates.

Take the problems one at a time:
1. divisions in the church.
2. following false teachers
3. incest
4. taking believers to court
5. marriage problems.
8. offering meats to idols
9. abuse of the Lord's Table
10. abuse of the Spiritual gifts
11. denial of the resurrection.

That is just a short list of the probelms that the Corinthian Church faced that I listed by memory. There are more than what I listed. Those were peculiar to that church at Corinth. They don't apply to my church. Do they apply to yours? Is thier incest in your church? Do people deny the resurrection in your church? Do you have beleivers suing each other in your church? Is there abuse of the Lord's Table in your church so much so that people are judged by death as a result of it? Do you eat meat that is offered to idols in your church? Are these the problems that you face in your church? I doubt that the answer is yes.

We lern from principles. We must learn to discern history from Biblical principles. Look at 1Cor.10 for example. Paul expounds the Old Testament Scriptures for the Corinthian believers. He takes them through the crossing of the Red Sea; eating of the Manna for all the time they were in the wilderness, drinking of the water that Moses struck. These are all historical events. They would not happen again in the time of the Corinthian believers (not at any time in the future), and the Corinthians knew it. Why was Paul then mentioning them. He tells us:

1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

And again:
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

We learn from historical events. But history is just that--history. History does not repeat itself in our time. There will be no Chloe that will suddenly appear in our churches. There will be no one fed by manna from heaven in our churches. There will be no parting of the Red Sea in our time. These are historical events written for our examples that we might learn from them.

We learn from the problems that the Corinthians facted. It is a fact of history that the Corinthian Church was blessed with all of the gifts of the Spirit. That is how their church is described. That is not how any other church is described. It is wrong to assume that this is true for every church. It is a description, a historical description of the church at Corinth. Please differentiate history from principles of truth. This was history. It was a statement of fact describing the condition of the church at that time.

On the negative side, in chapter five, Paul describes the condition of the church in that it faced the problem of incest. What were they going to do about it? They were proud and puffed up about it, instead of mourning about this terrible sin. Something had to be done. And Paul gave instruction as to what to do. Would they follow his advice. This was also a historical situation. But we learn from the principles that Paul adviised the church to put into practice. History is different than doctrinal truth or principle. Please learn to differentiate between the two.
DHK

 

[tamborine lady]

Please learn this

:type:

The bible is given for instruction. Every word of the bible can be used by GOD to teach us things. History can be used. Doctrine can be used. God is sovreign. That is why all the the books that are in the bible are there!

God put them there for our benifit. To say that this or that cannot be used to teach us today is just denying the full impact of the Word.

But if one must live under a rock, so be it!!


Peace,

Tam:laugh:

 

[DHK]

:type:

The bible is given for instruction. Every word of the bible can be used by GOD to teach us things. History can be used. Doctrine can be used. God is sovreign. That is why all the the books that are in the bible are there!

God put them there for our benifit. To say that this or that cannot be used to teach us today is just denying the full impact of the Word.

But if one must live under a rock, so be it!!


Peace,

Tam:laugh:

I never said it wasn't Tam.
I said one must be able to distinguish between historical events and doctrine. God spoke to Moses through a burning bush; a bush that was on fire and yet not consumed. Does God do that any longer? No! It was an historical event that will never be repeated again. Can we learn from such events? Yes, but the event itself will never be repeated again.
The same is true on the events in First Corinthians. They describe a church at that time. We can learn from them. But they describe a church in existence in 55 A.D. 1Cor.1:7 is a description of the state of the church at that time. Please differentiate between history and and doctrine.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

DHK suggeted:
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Take the problems one at a time:
1. divisions in the church.
2. following false teachers
3. incest
4. taking believers to court
5. marriage problems.
8. offering meats to idols
9. abuse of the Lord's Table
10. abuse of the Spiritual gifts
11. denial of the resurrection.
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In stead of looking at the problems how about looking at the solutions that Paul offered and told them how to operate in church then apply them to your church. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

DHK suggeted:
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Take the problems one at a time:
1. divisions in the church.
2. following false teachers
3. incest
4. taking believers to court
5. marriage problems.
8. offering meats to idols
9. abuse of the Lord's Table
10. abuse of the Spiritual gifts
11. denial of the resurrection.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

In stead of looking at the problems how about looking at the solutions that Paul offered and told them how to operate in church then apply them to your church. :smilewinkgrin:

Yes that is correct. Paul state a fact in 1Cor.1:7. The Corinthian Church had all the gifts. He leaves it at that. It is in the introduction of his letter. And then in chapters 12 to 14 he deals with the solutions that relate to the abuse of the gifts. That was the problem. They were abusing the very gifts that God had given the church.
DHK

And as I warned, when the thread reached 30 pages it should be closed.
Please free to start another one.