I Have A Question For You

[Pastor Sam]

You become a Pastor of a church and the church is connected with a group of churches but after you have been Pastor for several years the members tell you they want to leave that fellowship of churches and become independent. What do you do?

 

[TCassidy]

Do you believe in Congregational Government or Pastoral Dictatorship?

 

[Pastor Sam]

Do you believe in Congregational Government or Pastoral Dictatorship?

I don't believe in either. I believe a Pastor should be lead by the spirit and the church ought to follow him if he is truly being lead of the spirit but they ought not to follow blindly. I don't think a Pastor should be a dictator and I do believe the church should also have a say in the future direction the church is going. I think deacon lead churches are the worse kind of churches. Does that answer your question?

 

[TCassidy]

Does that answer your question?

No. You dodged the question. Just like you dodged the question, over and over again, for evidence you made for the KJV and that all modern versions water down the word of God.

You don't seem to be very good at answering questions.

 

[Pastor Sam]

No. You dodged the question. Just like you dodged the question, over and over again, for evidence you made for the KJV and that all modern versions water down the word of God.

You don't seem to be very good at answering questions.

Let me put it like this. I love the KJV and it is all I use. The other versions I have come in contact with have a softer way about them and they seem too me to be watered down. I am sorry if that offends you. If you like them that is fine with me but I have my own preference.

 

[Pastor Sam]

Do you believe in Congregational Government or Pastoral Dictatorship?

Back to your original question. I don't believe in either of these. Does that make it clear?

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Do you believe in Congregational Government or Pastoral Dictatorship?

Good grief TCassidy. As if there is no middle ground between what you, in your crudely stated opinion, call a "dictatorship" and an ecclesiastical hierarchy above the local church. You really run roughshod over people here; and that is my opinion.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

I don't believe in either. I believe a Pastor should be lead by the spirit and the church ought to follow him if he is truly being lead of the spirit but they ought not to follow blindly. I don't think a Pastor should be a dictator and I do believe the church should also have a say in the future direction the church is going. I think deacon lead churches are the worse kind of churches. Does that answer your question?

Now, in that, more diplomatically stated view, I agree with. Not a pastoral dictatorship, although pastoral authority is biblical, and a deacon, or board, run church results in confusion, which as we all know is not of God.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

No. You dodged the question. Just like you dodged the question, over and over again, for evidence you made for the KJV and that all modern versions water down the word of God.

You don't seem to be very good at answering questions.

 

[TCassidy]

in your crudely stated opinion, call a "dictatorship"

Please post a quote from me where I gave any sort of description of a "dictatorship" is in a local church.

and an ecclesiastical hierarchy above the local church

Please post a quote from me where I mentioned an ecclesiastical hierarchy above the local church,

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

I'm new to this group, but already I've had my fill of TCassidy and his angry, confrontational, rhetoric. Did you create this group T?

 

[TCassidy]

The other versions I have come in contact with have a softer way about them and they seem too me to be watered down.

And what do you base that opinion on? How did you go about establishing the base line from which you evaluate English translations?

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Please post a quote from me where I gave any sort of description of a "dictatorship" is in a local church.

Please post a quote from me where I mentioned an ecclesiastical hierarchy above the local church,

"Do you believe in Congregational Government or Pastoral Dictatorship?" Perhaps I read too much into the "congregational government", if so, my apologies.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't believe in either of these.

You don't believe in Congregational Government? But isn't that one of the hallmarks of being a Baptist?

Perhaps you are not aware of the alternatives?

Episcopal polity is when churches are governed by a board of bishops.

Connexional polity seen mostly in Methodist churches that have small groups of congregations called circuits which report to the Episcopal Bishops.

Presbyterian polity is when churches are governed by councils. The lowest level council governs a single local church and is called the session and its members are called elders. The minister of the church (sometimes referred to as a teaching elder) is a member of and presides over the session; lay representatives (ruling elders or, informally, just elders) are elected by the congregation. The session sends representatives to the next level higher council, called the presbytery which, in turn, reports to the synod or general assembly.

Congregational churches don't have titled positions such as bishop as a requirement of church structure. The local congregation rules itself, elects its own leaders, both pastors and deacons, and ordains its own leadership, and is a self-governed organization.

So, which one do you believe in if not Congregational Government?

 

[TCassidy]

I'm new to this group, but already I've had my fill of TCassidy

Please feel free to not participate if my presence disturbs you so.

his angry

Not even a little miffed. Nothing here to be angry about.

confrontational

Well, maybe conversational. I am a life long teacher. I just can't help the didactic approach. When someone claims to be a Baptist yet expounds on decidedly non-baptist teachings, I challenge that assertion. That usually results in one of two responses. #1. They get all hurt and offended and bluster about me rather than addressing the real issue. #2. They support their assertions from scripture or occasionally from historical writings, and defend their position as best as they are able. Obviously I have much more respect for the second methodology than the first.

Did you create this group T?

No, but I was one of the first Administrators (along with Dr. Bob and the good Squire) clear back in July of 2000 when a Hungarian gentleman, Barnabas (The Younger), started the Board. (In the interests of full disclosure the good Squire has seniority on me by about two weeks.)

Perhaps I read too much into the "congregational government", if so, my apologies.

That is certainly possible. Apology accepted, forgiven and forgotten.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

You don't believe in Congregational Government? But isn't that one of the hallmarks of being a Baptist?

Perhaps you are not aware of the alternatives?

Episcopal polity is when churches are governed by a board of bishops.

Connexional polity seen mostly in Methodist churches that have small groups of congregations called circuits which report to the Episcopal Bishops.

Presbyterian polity is when churches are governed by councils. The lowest level council governs a single local church and is called the session and its members are called elders. The minister of the church (sometimes referred to as a teaching elder) is a member of and presides over the session; lay representatives (ruling elders or, informally, just elders) are elected by the congregation. The session sends representatives to the next level higher council, called the presbytery which, in turn, reports to the synod or general assembly.

Congregational churches don't have titled positions such as bishop as a requirement of church structure. The local congregation rules itself, elects its own leaders, both pastors and deacons, and ordains its own leadership, and is a self-governed organization.

So, which one do you believe in if not Congregational Government?

Equal parts pastoral and congregational. God calls a man to do His work, and that man leads, but only within the confines of what is biblical, the congregation holds the man <pastor> accountable and can remove him for straying into heresy.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Please feel free to not participate if my presence disturbs you so.

Not even a little miffed. Nothing here to be angry about.

Well, maybe conversational. I am a life long teacher. I just can't help the didactic approach. When someone claims to be a Baptist yet expounds on decidedly non-baptist teachings, I challenge that assertion. That usually results in one of two responses. #1. They get all hurt and offended and bluster about me rather than addressing the real issue. #2. They support their assertions from scripture or occasionally from historical writings, and defend their position as best as they are able. Obviously I have much more respect for the second methodology than the first.

No, but I was one of the first Administrators (along with Dr. Bob and the good Squire) clear back in July of 2000 when a Hungarian gentleman, Barnabas (The Younger), started the Board. (In the interests of full disclosure the good Squire has seniority on me by about two weeks.)

That is certainly possible. Apology accepted, forgiven and forgotten.

"Please feel free to not participate if my presence disturbs you so."

Is that a polite request for me to leave?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

...after you have been Pastor for several years the members tell you they want...

The church should know the heart of the pastor and the pastor should know the heart of the people after just a few years. It sounds to me like there is a disconnect here somewhere.

 

[TCassidy]

Is that a polite request for me to leave?

That is entirely up to you. If you find my participation to be so odious it may be something you may want to consider.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Is that a polite request for me to leave?

Unless I missed something, this exchange was done via private message between you and Dr. Cassidy. If so, you have violated his trust by posting in the public forum a private message.

If he did in fact post this response to you on the public forum and I somehow missed it, then you have my apologies.