I Have A Question For You

[TRKJVlover]

I would pray and ask God for direction, (if I was unsure) and ask Him to open hearts to Whatever His Will is on the matter. Then I would follow His direction, and trust Him with the rest.

That said, If my pastor is a man of God, and I know it, and he makes a decision and some oppose his decision, I tend to go with the pastor unless the decision is immoral or unethical or whatever, which if he is a man of God following God, He will not make such decisions.

But men do make mistakes, SO If I disagree with the pastor, (on a matter that is morally and ethically neutral), I pray for Him that God direct Him, or correct me if I'm wrong.

I do not go to a Congregational church though.

I would agree with praying about it first.

But I would also wonder if your members feel that God's glory has been slowly or has already departed from their current denomination remember this happen to Israel hence Eli's grandson was called Ichabod for the glory had departed from Israel; I Samuel 4:19-22.

Plus just reading I Peter 5:1-4 and trying to let the Holy Spirit guide you as you pray I think will help you greatly. Might even try calling a special pray meeting for all the members to discuss and more importantly pray about this issue.
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, separate Me Barnabas and Saul for the work where unto I have called them.
Acts 13:2
What a great concept we in the church have lost that is to minister to the Lord. For this is what help bring about Paul's (Saul) great ministries.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Will someone define what he means by 'elder led rule,' please?
A plurality of elders is biblical (Philippians 1:1), and so is rule by elders (1 Timothy 5:17).
So.............?

 

[Revmitchell]

Elder led is when the elders basically take the place of the committees but as with the committees the final decisions go before the church. Elder ruled churches the elders make all the decisions and tell the churches what to do.

 

[John of Japan]

Will someone define what he means by 'elder led rule,' please?
A plurality of elders is biblical (Philippians 1:1), and so is rule by elders (1 Timothy 5:17).
So.............?

Depends on how you define "elder" in your ecclesiology. Are you going with the Presbyterian meaning or the Bible meaning? Peter equated "elder" with "pastor" ("shepherd") and called himself one (1 Peter 5:1-4).

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Wow, "all about TCassidy"? You certainly have not been here long, and you are being judgmental, in spite of your "meek" demeanor. There are many, many threads where Tom is not present. In fact, I'm miffed. I'm in a couple right now where he is not participating.

The BB is quite the place. I've been sharpened many times by others here, including Tom, with whom I disagree in a number of key areas. (I'm dispensational, and he's not, for example.) Stick around and learn.

You need to read all the back and forth of the conversation before making final judgement.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[John of Japan]

You need to read all the back and forth of the conversation before making final judgement.

Cheers,

Tony

I read the whole thing before posting. I still think you were judgmental in that post. I mean, complaining about confrontation on a debate board? Really?

 

[glad4mercy]

I would agree with praying about it first.

But I would also wonder if your members feel that God's glory has been slowly or has already departed from their current denomination remember this happen to Israel hence Eli's grandson was called Ichabod for the glory had departed from Israel; I Samuel 4:19-22.

Plus just reading I Peter 5:1-4 and trying to let the Holy Spirit guide you as you pray I think will help you greatly. Might even try calling a special pray meeting for all the members to discuss and more importantly pray about this issue.
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, separate Me Barnabas and Saul for the work where unto I have called them.
Acts 13:2
What a great concept we in the church have lost that is to minister to the Lord. For this is what help bring about Paul's (Saul) great ministries.

Great points.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

I read the whole thing before posting. I still think you were judgmental in that post. I mean, complaining about confrontation on a debate board? Really?

Thank you for your insight.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Depends on how you define "elder" in your ecclesiology. Are you going with the Presbyterian meaning or the Bible meaning? Peter equated "elder" with "pastor" ("shepherd") and called himself one (1 Peter 5:1-4).

Well, I'm interested in your opinion because I have recently been appointed an elder by my church, which already has a minister/pastor. It is clear that elders, presbuteroi, are the equivalent of overseers or 'bishops,' episkopoi (e.g. Acts 20:17, 28). I was given the position because I am involved with 'prayer and the ministry of the word' (Acts 6:4) rather than the more practical tasks of a deacon.

More prosaically, I was appointed because the minister has been absent occasionally over the past year due to family problems, and will be taking a three-month sabbatical shortly. It was felt desirable that someone be clearly seen to be in charge in his absence. But the Bible seems to be clear that a plurality of elders/overseers was the norm in the first century.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Equal parts pastoral and congregational. God calls a man to do His work, and that man leads, but only within the confines of what is biblical, the congregation holds the man <pastor> accountable and can remove him for straying into heresy.

One of the Puritans (I forget which) said that the captain of a ship has responsibility for his vessel and would continue to have it even if the king came on board. But if he were recklessly or negligently to be about to run the ship upon the rocks, the passengers and crew have the right to depose him and put the best-qualified man in charge.

As with the ship, so with the church, I suggest.

 

[John of Japan]

Well, I'm interested in your opinion because I have recently been appointed an elder by my church, which already has a minister/pastor. It is clear that elders, presbuteroi, are the equivalent of overseers or 'bishops,' episkopoi (e.g. Acts 20:17, 28). I was given the position because I am involved with 'prayer and the ministry of the word' (Acts 6:4) rather than the more practical tasks of a deacon.

More prosaically, I was appointed because the minister has been absent occasionally over the past year due to family problems, and will be taking a three-month sabbatical shortly. It was felt desirable that someone be clearly seen to be in charge in his absence. But the Bible seems to be clear that a plurality of elders/overseers was the norm in the first century.

I would certainly classify you as an elder/pastor in that case. I don't see a Biblical difference between what you have described and the Biblical model, even if you are acting as an interim pastor. Very similar situations to what you have described take place every day on mission fields around the world, because "the harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few."

On the other hand, the Presbyterian model of a board of laymen "elders" running the church but not as shepherds is not the Biblical model. Unfortunately, Baptist churches here in the States have been falling for that model and instituting "elder run" churches. Agreeing with TCassidy, I don't consider such churches to be Baptist, abandoning as they do at least two of the Baptist distinctives.

 

[rsr]

On the other hand, the Presbyterian model of a board of laymen "elders" running the church but not as shepherds is not the Biblical model. Unfortunately, Baptist churches here in the States have been falling for that model and instituting "elder run" churches.

This is not a new trend, but one under a different name. Deacon-run churches have been around for as long as I can remember.

 

[John of Japan]

This is not a new trend, but one under a different name. Deacon-run churches have been around for as long as I can remember.

Yeah, but the deacons don't usually claim to be doing that Biblically like the "elder rule" folks do. They just take over and try to run the pastor.

 

[Salty]

Yeah, but the deacons don't usually claim to be doing that Biblically like the "elder rule" folks do. They just take over and try to run the pastor.

Actually, they are cooks - they always prepare Roast Preacher!

 

[MartyF]

I was going to say,

Pray for wisdom and guidance from God.

Poll the entire membership of the church.

Allow the church to do what it feels is best for God. If you disagree, state it as plainly as possible and with all love.

Leave if you cannot abide by their decision. They will leave if you don't abide by their decision.

 

[Darrell C]

I don't believe in either. I believe a Pastor should be lead by the spirit and the church ought to follow him if he is truly being lead of the spirit but they ought not to follow blindly. I don't think a Pastor should be a dictator and I do believe the church should also have a say in the future direction the church is going. I think deacon lead churches are the worse kind of churches. Does that answer your question?

I would agree with this. While I do not embrace a Pastoral leadership which has no oversight by the Body, and think a Pastor should view his role as one of the Body, neither do I overlook the fact that he holds the role (and has been placed in that role) as the spiritual leader of that local body. If the Body feels he is failing in that leadership position, or is doctrinally distinct from an historical doctrinal foundation of that Body, they should replace him with someone who better meets those qualifications.

But to have a group of deacons trying to run things is, in my view, the "...too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome. Someone has to be in charge, and hopefully it is a Spirit-filled preacher of the Gospel, capable of instructing the Body in the will of God.

As far as the OP goes, and I haven't read the entire thread so it may have already been answered, I would need to know the reasons why they want to do this. Is it a monetary issue or doctrinal?


God bless.