I have changed my mind about Police

[Reynolds]

The thing that would mist quickly reform departments would be the removal of their financial incentive to write tickets. Departments have a huge financial interest in issuing citations. The money actually trickles down to the individual officers. In some cases, it pours down to them. I know several departments who let officers work unlimited overtime, with the understanding that the officer more than pay for himself during those hours. Many departments around here pay officers from other departments to work part time. All part time consists of is writing the dickens out of traffic citations.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[OnlyaSinner]

The thing that would mist quickly reform departments would be the removal of their financial incentive to write tickets. Departments have a huge financial interest in issuing citations. The money actually trickles down to the individual officers. In some cases, it pours down to them. I know several departments who let officers work unlimited overtime, with the understanding that the officer more than pay for himself during those hours. Many departments around here pay officers from other departments to work part time. All part time consists of is writing the dickens out of traffic citations.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I wonder how prevalent this ethos is, across local police forces, as I've not encountered it personally - not that my experience proves anything or is typical. I've been stopped for speeding twice, once 2 years ago for low 50s in a short 40 zone, and in 1976 for 47 after entering a 35. Each time I got a warning; having a clean license helped. The 1976 officer (State trooper) said he chose that spot because a young child had been killed by a speeder near that location a year earlier. Another State trooper I knew would set his radar at 20-over (70 in a 50) because he could not keep up with business if set at a lower speed. The small number of LEO stops I pass while driving in-state would not move the budget needle much at all.

A prevalent thought, especially among big-city cops is that there are 2 kinds of people in their bailiwick - Fuzz and Scuzz. They tend to look at everyone else as a potential suspect.

A 1960s book, The New Centurians, (fiction about Detroit cops, written by a veteran LEO) strongly emphasized this us-them attitude, another thing I've seldom encountered. The folk who go into LE for the power/authority are the ones who play that game, maybe the adrenalin junkies as well.

 

[robycop3]

While no longer a cop, I have two scanners that play 24/7 (except during electrical storms) tuned to local police, fire, EMS, & other emergency services. The cops on the radio refer to everyone not in some ES as a "subject", and most "undesirables", especially those whom they've arrested before, as "goat ropers"(A euphemism for "General Relief").

But then I know many of the cops' frustrations that lead to the wrong actions by some: putting in much work & many hoiurs getting the evidence to put a crook behind bars only to have a court throw out the charges on a "technicality". And most cops have an uneasy relationship with prosecutors, the cops knowing they're closest to the criminals' lifestyles, while the prosecutors' knowledge of written law makes many think they're superior to the police. Then, sometimes, corrupt prosecutors & corrupt cops are in cahoots.

Also, cops are legally bound to take verbal abuse, such as being called "pigs", etc.

But the "revolving door justice system" is the greatest frustration of all to both cops & prosecutors. This is a result of man's going on his own without JESUS.

 

[Aaron]

But at least they are not lawyers. You know what they say about lawyers. "99% of lawyers make the other 1% look bad."

 

[Darrell C]

Don't recall ever suffering because of another Peace Officer.

So you are speaking of something you have no experience in:

80% are in the middle. Not saints but not bottom feeders either. But every now and then they have a bad day and how they treat the public suffers from their bad attitude on that day.

How did you come by this information? Perhaps you know someone who suffered at the hands of a Police Officer that got up on the wrong side of the Bed?

I have arrested several hundred. In fact when I was still working Traffic my partner and I won the MADD award 3 years in a row, not bad in a department with 7000 sworn Peace Officers in a community of over 3 million.

And of course you gloss right over the point.

Sounds like to me that you had a specific intent to arrest drunk drivers, which is a good thing. Have you ever stopped to think that you saved lives by arresting those people? I'm sure you have.

The point is this: Police Officers do much good, and the bottom line is this would be an entirely different country if we did not have them.

Well, I am sure you know more about it than I do. I only wore the silver star for half my life.

Which makes your view that much worse.

I don't recall vilifying Peace Officers. Just pointed out they are people, just like the rest of us.

80% are in the middle. Not saints but not bottom feeders either. But every now and then they have a bad day and how they treat the public suffers from their bad attitude on that day.

Not quite a ringing endorsement there, T.

Yes, of course. I am sure you know many more Peace Officers than I do.

Again, you miss the point, which I am sure will be followed up with the typical "Know I didn't!"

Okay, so you know a number of Officers...that still doesn't account for the many you do not know. You are still offering up opinion based on your experience/s.

First, I did not badmouth or slander anyone. Second I will put my experience up against yours any day of the week. And I never watch, read, or listen to the "media."

First...

80% are in the middle. Not saints but not bottom feeders either. But every now and then they have a bad day and how they treat the public suffers from their bad attitude on that day.

But at least they are not lawyers. You know what they say about lawyers. "99% of lawyers make the other 1% look bad."

Reynolds said: ↑

For the most part, I agree. I think the numbers are more like 25 50 25.

That may be true if you include the officers who see a fellow officer do something wrong and refuse to confront him or even write a report about it.

And second, most police agencies are no longer dedicated to preserving the peace. Most have become revenue enhancement agents for local and state government.

Seems you have badmouthed both Police Officers as well as Lawyers...

Secondly, I am willing to cede you know more about the department and Officers you worked around, but, that does not mean you have a better understanding of the Police Force as a whole, because your experience means very little when we consider the vast number of Officers you know nothing about.

Third, if it is true that you never watch, read, or listen to the Media, then your error is compounded, because not only does it show you are drawing conclusions and voicing opinion based on your own experience, we also consider this is...

...from the past.

Me. Over 30 years ago.

You know it almost looks like you might have a sense of humor...

...naw, what am I thinking...




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Already dealt with. Justice on a frontier is a lot different than in an organized urban area.

Dealt with where?

And by the way...that is the point: Justice on a frontier is a lot different than in an organized urban area.

However, I would point out that Justice is Justice, and as for me, I feel much more comfortable having a Justice System such as we have, rather than having one, as the point you overlooked makes...where men, or women, determine for themselves what Justice is going to be.

While there are corrupt cops, our system does not allow for them to work outside of the Law, and when they are caught and dealt with by our Justice System, everyone cheers.

Because some of us believe in Justice as part of the American Way.

Not many cow punchers in Hidalgo County. Mostly agriculture down here. King cotton, citrus, sugar cane.

I'm actually very fond of cows. Just something peaceful about cows.

Darrell C said: ↑
Maybe you should check into what Police Officers are actually accomplishing before issuing the propaganda of anti-establishment nut cases.

Been there. Done that.

I know, I'm trying to help you stop doing it...

No, I live in Hidalgo County Texas.

I suspect you have dual residency...

If, for some reason, the social order collapsed, yes, we, the people, would be able to maintain order.

You're in the second residence on this one...fantasy land.

There are about 60,000 sworn Peace Officers in Texas.

What media source did you get that stat from?

But just about every Texan owns a gun, and over 1 million have a License To Carry.

Hmm, sounds like you guys don't trust each other very much, lol.

Trust me.

According to this thread I cannot. After all, you were a Police Officer, right?

We would not allow the criminal element to prey on the innocent.

And by what would you measure what is criminal? What would you say to a drunk driver? Who are you to determine that he/she shouldn't be driving while intoxicated?

Darrell C said: ↑
And that is the point: man taking matters into his own hands, and thinking he is effecting Justice.

Peace Officers are men (and women). Courts are men (and women). Who do you think is enforcing the law now?

Thankfully its not Billy Joe Bob who might have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed...

Hollywood. Probably not the best place to get your American history.

What experience I have is through dealing with Police Officers directly. Before I was saved, I was actually beaten in Jail, and taken out to a cliff and thrown off. Those were corrupt officers.

As far as Hollywood, they glamorize corruption in Police Officers. "Dirty Harry" is a good example of a cop with no respect for Law and Justice.

And by the way, what do you know about Hollywood. Didn't you say you didn't read, watch, or listen to any media source?

About the same as always. Pretty quiet. Of course with every other person you meet on a daily basis carrying a firearm the criminals head north to the big cities. Soft targets are much safer for them.

MM-hmm. Let's take a few of those "real men" who feel the need to carry a gun and teach them the love of Christ. Or, throw into a ghetto in New York.

Better bring extra ammo.



But, seriously, I want you to consider whether or not the Police Force in your area contributes to a quiet society. As I said, it may be that you are alive today because a Police Officer, doing his duty, pulled a drunk driver out of his car.


God bless.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The bad apples are ruining it for the good officers.

No sir, they are not.

There are still a lot of good Police Officers out there doing there duty and putting their lives on the line just by donning the shield. They put themselves in harms way for the good of the general public. Just because there is a small percentage of the population that has bought into a Police State hysteria doesn't mean there isn't a percentage that is quite happy we have the Police.

It would be in police officers best interest to purge the chaff from the profession.

That's like saying "It is in the best interest of the Church to purge false teachers from the faith."

It's kind of a no-brainer.

The actions of the bad apples are why the public as a whole distrust all.

Who exactly is this "public" you speak of? The public from media polls?

And people accuse me of a Hollywood view, lol.

Protect and serve.

They do.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Regretfully, that wasn't the system used on the American Frontier. But then, we Americans preferred a weaker central government.

So let me see if I understand: you are saying that it was regretful that "Justice" was carried out without the alleged criminal benefiting from the Justice System?


God bless.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Actually, I was trying to say on the US frontier settlements outran the formal justice system. In many cases, there was a reversion to Common Law. Try not to project the system of the more settled East on the frontier West.
It's also worth noting, the Earps and Holliday were charged with murder and a preliminary hearing was held.

So let me see if I understand: you are saying that it was regretful that "Justice" was carried out without the alleged criminal benefiting from the Justice System?

 

[Reynolds]

Law enforcement has the worst reputation that they have had in modern history. The Ga Tech shooting will probably be cleared as justified because it probably met the letter of the legal force criteria. In my opinion, it was nothing but murder. I have been attacked with edge weapon s on two occasions in the line of duty. I was attacked, not menaced at, not threatened, attacked! I subdued them with less than lethal force. Shooting them was 110% justified, but lives are valuable and I love people. Both were black people, if it matters; it shouldn't matter.

 

[robycop3]

Maybe you just got off lucky, Reynolds. I am 6'2", was 240 LB at the time, former boxer & semipro football player, but I was once tossed 10 ft. thru the air by a 150-lb. doper who wasn't even trying to hurt me.(No, I didn't shoot him. He suddenly just collapsed. He was high on LSD.) If he'd had a weapon, he woulda likely killed me, had he gone for my head or throat.

I don't blame any cop who sees a genuine threat to his/her life/well-being, or that of a fellow officer or innocent-appearing member of the public at-large, for shooting the perp.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Junk like that is why there is zero trust or respect for L.E. in the USA. I now view them as 99% nuisance and 1% servant. I think for most of them the servant is reluctant. They thrive off annoying people. I actually had an instructor teach us how to make people nutt up just so there would be grounds for an obstruction arrest. I saw it happen time and again. I am glad I retired.

And you a voice of experience

 

[Reynolds]

I arrested a 305 lb man on PCP who threw me in the air over the roof of my patrol car. At the time I was 280 and competitively lifting weights. At the time I benched over 500 and squatted almost 700. I regularly practiced and trained in martial arts. His Father still thanks me every time he sees me for not killing him.
Many l.e. are scared of their own shadow and poorly trained. I can tell by the manner in which someone is posturing if they are an edged weapon expert. I am quite confident that even now that I have lost a couple of steps I can still disarm 99.9% of the U.S. population that is not edge weapon combat trained.

The G.T. video is sad. It was handled terribly. Scout would have been super easy to disarm. As the Sheriff used to tell us, "We got all the time in the world. Don't force it." Back off. Stand down. Wait for SWAT to arrive.

Maybe you just got off lucky, Reynolds. I am 6'2", was 240 LB at the time, former boxer & semipro football player, but I was once tossed 10 ft. thru the air by a 150-lb. doper who wasn't even trying to hurt me.(No, I didn't shoot him. He suddenly just collapsed. He was high on LSD.) If he'd had a weapon, he woulda likely killed me, had he gone for my head or throat.

I don't blame any cop who sees a genuine threat to his/her life/well-being, or that of a fellow officer or innocent-appearing member of the public at-large, for shooting the perp.

 

[agedman]

I am all for law enforcement of true crimes.

The typical ticket writing, doesn't fit that scenario.

The over reach of the present asset seizure doesn't fit that scenario.

The bully attitude without true accountability to the public doesn't fit that scenario.

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule asset seizures unconstitutional, one justice has already indicated that it is and merely needs a good test case brought before the court.

The public use of cameras to document police as well as criminal activity is a great tool so long as the media present the whole video and not edit for biases.

Time to take patrol cars away, and have the police actually walk the streets in the big cities, standing forcefully in crime ridden neighborhoods, and boldly confront those who would do harm to good individuals and families. Be proactive rather than reactive. Every educator who has had to teach in a large class setting with less than desirable must use that principle.

 

[kyredneck]

"99% of lawyers make the other 1% look bad."

Know what's black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?
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....a Rottweiler ..

 

[Reynolds]

I am all for law enforcement of true crimes.

The typical ticket writing, doesn't fit that scenario.

The over reach of the present asset seizure doesn't fit that scenario.

The bully attitude without true accountability to the public doesn't fit that scenario.

I predict that the Supreme Court will rule asset seizures unconstitutional, one justice has already indicated that it is and merely needs a good test case brought before the court.

The public use of cameras to document police as well as criminal activity is a great tool so long as the media present the whole video and not edit for biases.

Time to take patrol cars away, and have the police actually walk the streets in the big cities, standing forcefully in crime ridden neighborhoods, and boldly confront those who would do harm to good individuals and families. Be proactive rather than reactive. Every educator who has had to teach in a large class setting with less than desirable must use that principle.

There needs to be a return to community Policing. Walking the streets was and still is a wonderful way to form relationships with the public. Police should strive to serve and protect the public. The goal today seems to be "annoy and fleece" instead of "protect and serve."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There needs to be a return to community Policing. Walking the streets was and still is a wonderful way to form relationships with the public. Police should strive to serve and protect the public. The goal today seems to be "annoy and fleece" instead of "protect and serve."

So how do you make that happen?

 

[TCassidy]

....a Rottweiler ..

I was gonna say "Doberman?"

 

[kyredneck]

I was gonna say "Doberman?"

....yea, they're blk & br, they'd look good too...

 

[Reynolds]

So how do you make that happen?

So how do you make that happen?

A good start would be legislators taking the financial incentives for departments writing citations. Financial incentives should be in the form of grants that are attached to performance and goal oriented programs.