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I have two questions for KJVOist.
- Thread starter David J
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Quit sliding around on mud and give an honest attempt to give an answer for your "faith".
Even a five year old would know you did not answer my questions.
Are you sure you are not stating exaggerations? Proof is always much better than opinions.
Which Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts do you use to test your statement of its accuracy rather than just repeating someone else's statement making yours only precise?
Are you stating that the people who were called Christians did not have God's word before English was ever spoken or existed?
On this verse -- we see the difference between the "righteousness" in the KJV and the "righteous acts" in the NKJV. "Righteous acts" in the NKJV reflect to good work. "Righteousness" in the KJV is correctly translated because Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed each and every believer. I see the NKJV is wrong here. The correct translation is the KJV over the NKJV.
william s. correa
New Member
Quit sliding around on mud and give an honest attempt to give an answer for your "faith".
Even a five year old would know you did not answer my questions.
Are you sure you are not stating exaggerations? Proof is always much better than opinions.
Which do you use to test your statement of its accuracy rather than just repeating someone else's statement making yours only precise?
Are you stating that the people who were called Christians did not have God's word before English was ever spoken or existed? </font>[/QUOTE]Not at all they always had copies, handed down from the early Church fathers which eventually were handed down the the translators of the AV1611! If you have a KJB you have the best trnslations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts so why do I need another translation in English well I guess its because people cannot handle the truth!
william s. correa
New Member
On this verse -- we see the difference between the "righteousness" in the KJV and the "righteous acts" in the NKJV. "Righteous acts" in the NKJV reflect to good work. "Righteousness" in the KJV is correctly translated because Jesus Christ's righteousness imputed each and every believer. I see the NKJV is wrong here. The correct translation is the KJV over the NKJV. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen Preach it Bro Jo
william s. correa
New Member
Well! I said what the Spirit told me to say!Originally posted by Bro Tony:
Okay, William they must have since you say so
Bro Tony
Wrong again. But again I state the words "white" or "bright" do not change the doctrinal meaning of this verse.
Even if you dont believe that you have a real problem with the word translated in the AV---the Greek word used in the major text for the KJV, the Stephen, 1550 uses the word lampros--which means shining, brilliant, bright as in referring to the clothing of an angel or the saints. The same Greek word is used in Rev. 22:16, but I don't see you calling Jesus "the white and morning star"
Bro Tony
Wrong again, the best translation of this verse is the NKJV in this case for the Greek again is translated as "is of the saints" not "of saints", there is a difference and you would need to look again at the Greek text to see it. Even at that I still state there is no doctrinal change.
Bro Tony
Ok all lets get back on subject. It seems the KJVOist want to change this topic into a MV vs. KJV topic. I said in the rules of this thread not to post off topic subjects. How hard is this to follow?
So far we have the faith based claim which does not prove KJVOism. I get the same faith based claims from every Mormon missionary that knocks on my door when I ask how do we know Mormonism is true. Sorry KJVOist but that weak defense does not hold up. As a fundamentalist I need Scriptural support.
Answer my 2 simple questions.
Here is something I posted to other forums and it holds true here:
The typical KJVOist formula for answering questions!
KJVOist answer questions with questions, avoiding hard questions that challenge KJVOism by posting answers to other questions not asked in the original questions, refuse to directly answer hard questions about KJVO claims, and then the KJVOist claims he/she answered the questions while asking another set of questions to deflect the attention from the original questions.
I've dealt with KJVOist for years and as a former KJVO I know the ropes. The above is proven by KJVOist by simply asking for Scriptural support for KJVOism. If after going through several hoops they admit no Scriptural support for KJVOism then ask them what is their authority outside of the KJV that is equal to Scriptural support for the KJVO doctrine and claims. Sit back and watch what I described work as KJVOist spin and evade the questions!
David J
So far we have the faith based claim which does not prove KJVOism. I get the same faith based claims from every Mormon missionary that knocks on my door when I ask how do we know Mormonism is true. Sorry KJVOist but that weak defense does not hold up. As a fundamentalist I need Scriptural support.
Answer my 2 simple questions.
Here is something I posted to other forums and it holds true here:
The typical KJVOist formula for answering questions!
KJVOist answer questions with questions, avoiding hard questions that challenge KJVOism by posting answers to other questions not asked in the original questions, refuse to directly answer hard questions about KJVO claims, and then the KJVOist claims he/she answered the questions while asking another set of questions to deflect the attention from the original questions.
I've dealt with KJVOist for years and as a former KJVO I know the ropes. The above is proven by KJVOist by simply asking for Scriptural support for KJVOism. If after going through several hoops they admit no Scriptural support for KJVOism then ask them what is their authority outside of the KJV that is equal to Scriptural support for the KJVO doctrine and claims. Sit back and watch what I described work as KJVOist spin and evade the questions!
David J
Wrong again, the best translation of this verse is the NKJV in this case for the Greek again is translated as "is of the saints" not "of saints", there is a difference and you would need to look again at the Greek text to see it. Even at that I still state there is no doctrinal change.
Bro Tony </font>[/QUOTE]No, no! I am not wrong because I have 3 NT prior to 1611 KJV.
1526, 1537 and 1557 New Testament on this verse said, "RIGHTEOUSNESS"!!!! The KJV agrees with them, but NKJV disagrees with them. Sorry, the NKJV is wrong to affect this doctrine.
Except that verse is not talking about imputed righteousness, but about the righteous living that follows inputed righteousness and is evidence of it. In fact, if you actually believed the TR you claim to champion you would know that! και εδοθη αυτη ινα περιβαληται βυσσινον καθαρον και λαμπρον το γαρ βυσσινον τα δικαιωματα εστιν των αγιων.
Notice that word δικαιωματα. It is the word for righteous acts. It it meant "the way of righteousness" the word would be δικαιοσυνης.
Once again you have proven you don't believe the bible you champion.
The bibliolater crowd is sure alive and throwing on this thread. If it were up to me, I would ban them all for being schismatics. BTW, know what the Greek word for being divisive (like the onlies)and creating false teaching?
Study today means vastly different than what it did in 1611. Hence modern English translations use a variety of acceptable English words that shows it is NOT just "book learnin'" (which "study" today would indicate, like it's something we do to master a subject matter).
God's inspired Word was "spoudadzo" from the root "speedy". It's PRIMARY meaning - look it up in Strongs or any lexicon - is "to give diligence, be diligent, endeavour."
As this involves "work" (how foolish to say the other translation give a works-oriented version) it may also be translated as "labor" or "study". So the AV1611 is CORRECT, but our understanding of the word "study" is failing!
It is the EXACT SAME WORD translated "diligence" in the AV1611 in the same book! (2 Tim 4:9 & 21). How can it be "evil" or "sinful" to translate it as "diligence in 2 Tim 2:15? It is simply a choice the AV1611 men made from many equally-acceptable words, and the BEST in their day.
I'd encourage the bibliolaters to "study" a bit before showing gross ignorance of translations, logic and God's Word in public. It is embarrassing to many of us.
[This message was reported, but I see no rule-breaking by using the word bibliolater. It is just a name with no slander intended. Therefore, it will not be edited. Moderator Phillip]
[ May 11, 2006, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Phillip ]
Study today means vastly different than what it did in 1611. Hence modern English translations use a variety of acceptable English words that shows it is NOT just "book learnin'" (which "study" today would indicate, like it's something we do to master a subject matter).
God's inspired Word was "spoudadzo" from the root "speedy". It's PRIMARY meaning - look it up in Strongs or any lexicon - is "to give diligence, be diligent, endeavour."
As this involves "work" (how foolish to say the other translation give a works-oriented version) it may also be translated as "labor" or "study". So the AV1611 is CORRECT, but our understanding of the word "study" is failing!
It is the EXACT SAME WORD translated "diligence" in the AV1611 in the same book! (2 Tim 4:9 & 21). How can it be "evil" or "sinful" to translate it as "diligence in 2 Tim 2:15? It is simply a choice the AV1611 men made from many equally-acceptable words, and the BEST in their day.
I'd encourage the bibliolaters to "study" a bit before showing gross ignorance of translations, logic and God's Word in public. It is embarrassing to many of us.
[This message was reported, but I see no rule-breaking by using the word bibliolater. It is just a name with no slander intended. Therefore, it will not be edited. Moderator Phillip]
[ May 11, 2006, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Phillip ]
Originally posted by PhatCat:
This is like saying "Show me the truth about someone going to hell without Jesus, but I don't want a bunch of Scriptures concerning sin because that can be applied to any thing you do."
OK, let's see some Scripture supporting the KJVO myth. This isn't a loaded question...either you have it or you don't.
Since I cannot lead anyone to the Lord who does not believe the Scriptures given, then I cannot show someone the truth about the KJB who does not believe the Scriptures given.
There aren't any scriptures given that support the KJVO myth. All can be applied to any other valid version as well as to the KJV.
It'll just have to be the Holy Spirit, just like it was for me, or else nothing.
It'll be nothing, because the Holy Spirit does not teach ascriptural doctrines.
Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
HOW MANY TIMES IS THIS NONSENSE GONNA BE REPEATED????????
Psalm 12:7 is about PEOPLE, as the AV 1611 clearly proves!!!
And besides, if it actually WAS about God's words, why should it apply only to the KJV?
How many times does God have to say it before it's true?
Just once. But how much must one twist His words until they read as the 'twister' wants?
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Then He is NOT the author of the KJVO myth.
Confusion (example):
Isaiah 14:12 KJB- Lucifer (referring to Satan)
Isaiah 14:12 NIV(and most MVs)- morning star (which is another name for Jesus)
Actually, the confusion appears to be in your source from where you're copying. Here's that the KJV says:
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Plural Jesuses?
Revelation 2:28
And I will give him the morning star.
Jesus isn't gonna give HIMSELF any more. He finished that at Calvary.
II Corinthians 2:15 KJB- are saved (finished work)
II Corinthians 2:15 NIV (and most MVs)- are being saved (works)
So which is it? Are you saved or being saved? If being, then how far along are you? 50%, 75%, 99%? How much before you can "get in"?
Yet another KJVO attempt to fool someone. Really, Sir, you should check out the VERACITY of those writers before ya believe their guff. This is simply describing an ongoing event among a group of people, who weren't all saved at once. It's kinda like" Pastor Bedtime is holding an evangelistic crusade in the Civic center this week. Three more evenings yet to go! Scores ARE BEING SAVED as the crusade goes on!"
No, my Bible, the Holy Bible AV1611 KJB (yes, with SPELLING and grammer NOT DOCTRINAL revisions through 1769) says that I am SAVED! {/i]
And so do all of mine.
And by the Morning Star Jesus Christ, not Lucifer.
How about "or O day starre" in the AV 1611?
Those with baked clay hearts will not even care about this.
That leaves ME out, as I DO care about this...I care enough to take the time to say without hesitation that this whole thing is horse feathers and chicken teeth, and I don't believe one word of it because there's NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for it, in the AV 1611 or any other valid version. I care enough to take the time to remind the readership to CHECK OUT THE VERACITY of the ridiculous claims made by the KJVO authors.
Good day.
Thanx, and same to you.
This is like saying "Show me the truth about someone going to hell without Jesus, but I don't want a bunch of Scriptures concerning sin because that can be applied to any thing you do."
OK, let's see some Scripture supporting the KJVO myth. This isn't a loaded question...either you have it or you don't.
Since I cannot lead anyone to the Lord who does not believe the Scriptures given, then I cannot show someone the truth about the KJB who does not believe the Scriptures given.
There aren't any scriptures given that support the KJVO myth. All can be applied to any other valid version as well as to the KJV.
It'll just have to be the Holy Spirit, just like it was for me, or else nothing.
It'll be nothing, because the Holy Spirit does not teach ascriptural doctrines.
Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
HOW MANY TIMES IS THIS NONSENSE GONNA BE REPEATED????????
Psalm 12:7 is about PEOPLE, as the AV 1611 clearly proves!!!
And besides, if it actually WAS about God's words, why should it apply only to the KJV?
How many times does God have to say it before it's true?
Just once. But how much must one twist His words until they read as the 'twister' wants?
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Then He is NOT the author of the KJVO myth.
Confusion (example):
Isaiah 14:12 KJB- Lucifer (referring to Satan)
Isaiah 14:12 NIV(and most MVs)- morning star (which is another name for Jesus)
Actually, the confusion appears to be in your source from where you're copying. Here's that the KJV says:
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Plural Jesuses?
Revelation 2:28
And I will give him the morning star.
Jesus isn't gonna give HIMSELF any more. He finished that at Calvary.
II Corinthians 2:15 KJB- are saved (finished work)
II Corinthians 2:15 NIV (and most MVs)- are being saved (works)
So which is it? Are you saved or being saved? If being, then how far along are you? 50%, 75%, 99%? How much before you can "get in"?
Yet another KJVO attempt to fool someone. Really, Sir, you should check out the VERACITY of those writers before ya believe their guff. This is simply describing an ongoing event among a group of people, who weren't all saved at once. It's kinda like" Pastor Bedtime is holding an evangelistic crusade in the Civic center this week. Three more evenings yet to go! Scores ARE BEING SAVED as the crusade goes on!"
No, my Bible, the Holy Bible AV1611 KJB (yes, with SPELLING and grammer NOT DOCTRINAL revisions through 1769) says that I am SAVED! {/i]
And so do all of mine.
And by the Morning Star Jesus Christ, not Lucifer.
How about "or O day starre" in the AV 1611?
Those with baked clay hearts will not even care about this.
That leaves ME out, as I DO care about this...I care enough to take the time to say without hesitation that this whole thing is horse feathers and chicken teeth, and I don't believe one word of it because there's NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for it, in the AV 1611 or any other valid version. I care enough to take the time to remind the readership to CHECK OUT THE VERACITY of the ridiculous claims made by the KJVO authors.
Good day.
Thanx, and same to you.
Originally posted by william s. correa:
We need CSI to get the Kind of evidence that you want.
Why? God either made it plain or He didn't make it at all.
Paul said as a looking glass darkly. not an "Electron Micrscope" Clearly.
He is talking about HIMSELF here, not something He made. Please read your Bible a little more closely before you put yer foot in yer mouth again.
When we all get to heave what a day of rejoicing that will be! when we All see Jesus we will all Shout the "VICTORY"! The Isms belong with the False Doctorines! not the proven Heritage of the AV 1611! Some body say Amen! Stick with tradition and stay away from the teachings of man,(TCassidy,Robycop3, ransom, desaderio demonia,etc...) all of you I have "Marked" with a Big Sharpie! As the Word tells me to do!
Only person you've "marked" is YOURSELF. And by Christian consideration and the rules of this board, I'm not gonna say what that mark symbolizes.
NOW...Are ya even gonna ATTEMPT to answer the two questions David J asked when he started this thread?
We need CSI to get the Kind of evidence that you want.
Why? God either made it plain or He didn't make it at all.
Paul said as a looking glass darkly. not an "Electron Micrscope" Clearly.
He is talking about HIMSELF here, not something He made. Please read your Bible a little more closely before you put yer foot in yer mouth again.
When we all get to heave what a day of rejoicing that will be! when we All see Jesus we will all Shout the "VICTORY"! The Isms belong with the False Doctorines! not the proven Heritage of the AV 1611! Some body say Amen! Stick with tradition and stay away from the teachings of man,(TCassidy,Robycop3, ransom, desaderio demonia,etc...) all of you I have "Marked" with a Big Sharpie! As the Word tells me to do!
Only person you've "marked" is YOURSELF. And by Christian consideration and the rules of this board, I'm not gonna say what that mark symbolizes.
NOW...Are ya even gonna ATTEMPT to answer the two questions David J asked when he started this thread?
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