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I Know I Am Elect Because...
- Thread starter swaimj
- Start date
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
First, I haven't used your slang. That all belongs to you. Second, you refer to someone that God has brought to salvation as a "victim". Very sad, indeed.skypair said:
Scripture tells us that God predestines "according to the kind intention of His will." (Eph.1) Only in a sick, perverted mind can that be changed to mean a selfish desire to please Himself "s**ually".
BTW, I have NEVER used your slang "ya**" and "r**fie". I don't even know what the terms mean. DO NOT ATTRIBUTE YOUR SLANG TO ME!!!YOU SAID IT! YOU OWN IT!
I can't believe you are attempting to defend this nonsense.
Do not attribute your twisted, perverted beliefs to me!!!
Please do not respond to anything I post. Not only will I not respond to anything you post, I won't be reading anything you post from this point forward.
raying:I know I am elect because
God's word teaches me that if I repent of my sin and receive Jesus Christ as my Savor and Lord------------that if I would "call on the name of the Lord" ------that He would save me
And I did that---------I became a "whosoever will"-------it is the "whosoever will's" who are the elect------pure and simple---nothing hard to explain-------nothing to get so worked up over----the "whosoever will's" are the elect
Brother David
God's word teaches me that if I repent of my sin and receive Jesus Christ as my Savor and Lord------------that if I would "call on the name of the Lord" ------that He would save me
And I did that---------I became a "whosoever will"-------it is the "whosoever will's" who are the elect------pure and simple---nothing hard to explain-------nothing to get so worked up over----the "whosoever will's" are the elect
Brother David
So it's OK for someone to force what he thinks is a good thing on a person and we shouldn't call that person a "victim?" You do acknowledge, however, that the "victim," by nature, doesn't want what the "perp" is offering, right?canadyjd said:
jd, you go too far. I am not saying that God gets and s**ual pleasure but am comparing to s**ual pleasure the "pleasing Himself" that y'all insist is why God chooses whom He does. And anything done with a" selfish desire" is done without regard to the wishes of others.
If you don't understand the terms, perhaps I am not offering anything out of line. The analogy I give may very be valid (though, admittedly, crude) and you don't know it. In that case, I'm sorry it is you reacting and not some who can understand but, apparently, don't have an answer.
The main point is this: which methodology does God use to save people -- the "date rape" model of "forelove" and manipulation of the unsuspecting "elect" or the "courtship-marriage" model of mutual respect and persuasion? If you know your scripture, that shouldn't be too hard to pick, should it?
skypair
blackbird said:
Brother David, that is the simplicity that is in Christ! I think a lot of people have fallen for "philosophical theology" and "speculative doctrines" -- what the Bible calls "cunningly devised fables" -- that are suggestive of "another way" -- "all of God" and no human responsibility.
And I only press the issues in the hope that we may, in short order, "come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Eph 4:13 There is no reason to listen to any man who "throws a monkey wrench" into what is a perfectly good "machine," the Bible! The Bible doesn't need "embellishment" by "bloviating blooters!" :laugh: But there is a reason to regather the lost sheep -- the help them find the lost coin -- to welcome home the prodigal sons!
skypair
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Dr Bob's explanation of man's disability to understand is inadaquite.Rippon said:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
It's inadaquite because no one can possibly understand until there hear a preacher. No one knows who God or His Son is until they hear. So how could they understand. This does not say they can't understand a preacher preaching the gospel.
Actually Paul is quoting a fool or sinner and since he says "there is no one"Rippon said:
This would also include the elect.
I admit that I myself am a sinful creature saved by God. I do not claim that I had anything to with my own Salvation. All of any actions taken by me are directly the results of God's work on me. I had nothing to do with it.
Rippon said:
All these passages are true and good ones they are. Yet they still do not teach a disability for all men. Man could come to Christ but, Man won't, because until the man hears the truth and believes it is true. He will stay in the darkness where he is most comfortable.
MB
When Christ died for the whole world every man woman and child was chosen for Salvation in the act of Him dying willingly for our sins. Election to Salvation means that you can be saved not that you will be.Dr. Bob said:
If election meant that we would be saved no matter what and that it was particular. This would make God a respecter of certain men.
Part of that Passage you quoted;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
This states there is no difference. If there is no difference then election cannot be particular. There is no separation of the sheep and goats because there are no fools who are sheep. We are all goats. Sheep are followers and fools do not follow Christ. We are all sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God.
The part of that passage you wanted me to see.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
Man on his own doesn't understand but if the man hears the gospel he is not on his own. Man doesn't hear the gospel unless he has been drawn to hear it. All men are drawn to Christ. Jn 12:32
Rom 3:11 is not saying that man can't understand the gospel.
MB
AresMan said:
Sounds as if you don't think God is able to save who He pleases, but is restricted to your ideas of particular election.
God said;
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
MB
All Scripture From TNIV
No.Christ did not die potentially for anyone;He died specifically and secured salvation for certain ones.
Everyone was chosen for salvation?Even a lot of non-Cals might disagree with you.
Acts 13:48 : When the Gentiles heard this,they were glad and honored the word of the Lord;and all who were ordained for eternal life believed.
Notice it does not say every single person was ordained for eternal life but those who were ordained or appointed for eternal life.Do you believe in the decree(s)of God?
[quote =MB]There is no separation of the sheep and goats because there are no fools who are sheep. We are all goats.[/quote]
Where are you getting this stuff?It's not in Scripture.
People are either sheep or goats.All are not goats.All are not sheep.The great separation will be evidenced on the Day of Judgment.
Jesus knows His sheep.He knows them and gives them eternal life -- no one else.IOW,no goats receive eternal life.
The Lord gives eternal life to His sheep alone.See John 10:28 for more on this.As a matter of fact check out the whole chapter.
Jesus gives eternal life to all those the Father has given Him.See John 17:2.
MB said:
No.Christ did not die potentially for anyone;He died specifically and secured salvation for certain ones.
Everyone was chosen for salvation?Even a lot of non-Cals might disagree with you.
Acts 13:48 : When the Gentiles heard this,they were glad and honored the word of the Lord;and all who were ordained for eternal life believed.
Notice it does not say every single person was ordained for eternal life but those who were ordained or appointed for eternal life.Do you believe in the decree(s)of God?
[quote =MB]There is no separation of the sheep and goats because there are no fools who are sheep. We are all goats.[/quote]
Where are you getting this stuff?It's not in Scripture.
People are either sheep or goats.All are not goats.All are not sheep.The great separation will be evidenced on the Day of Judgment.
Jesus knows His sheep.He knows them and gives them eternal life -- no one else.IOW,no goats receive eternal life.
The Lord gives eternal life to His sheep alone.See John 10:28 for more on this.As a matter of fact check out the whole chapter.
Jesus gives eternal life to all those the Father has given Him.See John 17:2.
AresMan said:
I have no idea where you got that from. God can save anyone He wants to and the Calvinist idea of particular election has no restraint on who He saves. By the way Particular election to Salvation is yet another Calvinist concept that isn't found in scripture. There are different elections such as the choosing of Jacob Which have no bearing on Salvation. Example the people in "Nineveh". They weren't Jews, they weren't elect, yet they believed and were saved.
MB
Rippon said:
Here is a verse to which the rules of grammar have been added to. The Greek says "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life". The problem with grammar is that there was no such rules by which language had to stick with.
We are all goats before Salvation. Sheep follow Christ. Were you born following Christ? If not then you my friend were once a goat.Rippon said:
Exactly goats don't, but those who are not saved yet, are still goats because, they have not begun to follow Christ. We are not followers of Christ until we are.Rippon said:
And all things are posible with God which means we can not restrict Him with whom He can save.Rippon said:
MB
God limits Himself by His very nature.
All the elect shall be saved, and the remainder passed by to eternal damnation.
The blood of Christ is sufficient for all, but efficient for the elect.
Theology is not extra-biblical, but is, in fact, the orderly garden of scripture from which all truth is derived in an orderly fashion. From this we draw the decrees of God, which in turn explains the nature of God. The order of the decrees may vary according to one's understanding of the word, but they must align with scripture.
It is not God that changes, but man does under God's permissive will, but man always falls under God's sovereign will. Jonah is a prime example of the working of God in and over man.
Cheers,
Jim
All the elect shall be saved, and the remainder passed by to eternal damnation.
The blood of Christ is sufficient for all, but efficient for the elect.
Theology is not extra-biblical, but is, in fact, the orderly garden of scripture from which all truth is derived in an orderly fashion. From this we draw the decrees of God, which in turn explains the nature of God. The order of the decrees may vary according to one's understanding of the word, but they must align with scripture.
It is not God that changes, but man does under God's permissive will, but man always falls under God's sovereign will. Jonah is a prime example of the working of God in and over man.
Cheers,
Jim
MB said:
Such an error of thinking about God's elect will get you into a mess o'trouble.
Read what JESUS said about His sheep. Sheep that had not yet heard the Gospel but were still sheep. Sheep in other nations/times (like us) thousands of years removed. Sheep that were "lost" (Lk 15) and the shepherd found them. Sheep that heard the Shepherd's voice.
They were never goats. They were lost sheep and found sheep, but always from the foundation of the world, beloved elect sheep.
One is named Bob.
Jonah was already in the service of the Lord. It isn't as if God took a sinner and just forced him to go to Nineveh. Those in Nineveh were not Jews there fore they were not elect but yet were saved when they believed God. Besides Jonah at first rebel against God and didn't do as instructed. God corrected Him but Jonah still willingly chose to go to nineveh.Jim1999 said:
I'm not saying that Calvinist are wrong about everything but they are wrong about that which they have no scripture to support. Namely the tulip. All of the scripture Calvinist use to support it is always about something else.
They assume this verse is there claim for Total Depravity.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Although you will notice that it was a fool who originally uttered this statement Psalms 14. It does not say man cannot but does not. It is also all inclusive. So according to Calvinist doctrine it would be easy to assume that there are no Christians because this verse says "there is no one who understands." It does not say the elect will understand. In fact the Jews still for the most part do not understand which is why they are so busy trying to be righteous them selves that they ignore the righteousness of God.
MB