I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

[glfredrick]

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Genesis 3
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Adam is our lesson of what not to do.

Is trusting in Jesus and His word man centered salvation or is saying it is a man-centered salvation a lie from the devil?

You lean on human reasoning I will trust and hold onto the words of Life

God loved the world that He sent His Son, that those who believe in Jesus will not be condemned but have eternal life.

God isn't weak He just isn't going to save those who don't trust in His Son. God does not need to save any of us, but His word say's He will save those who trust in His Son.

Also note that Eve "interpreted" God's word other than the way God presented it. That was her first mistake and it led to others.

 

[MB]

Also note that Eve "interpreted" God's word other than the way God presented it. That was her first mistake and it led to others.

Looks like this is what happens when we do not take God literally at His word. Sort of like what the New Bible versions are doing more and more. I read where there is a new version for those who speak Arabic. They decided to rename God the Father, Allah.
MB

 

[Skandelon]

My friend. We don't change minds, we merely preach the gospel. Only the gospel-the power of His word changes hearts and minds, and only the elect hear His voice.

So, by that logic I suppose everyone who has error in their doctrinal beliefs is not really saved because clearly not all of us are hearing the 'same voice?' Is that your point?

My friend. This is not biblical. The bible says, there is not one that seeks after God. The bible says, we are all born at enmity with God.

We agree on this point, we just disagree regarding the effectuality of the means God uses to seek and enable mankind to respond to his appeal for reconciliation.

An unbeliever is already driven away and does not care if they are loved by the one true God. Without God's intervention; no man can come to God, not because they aren't able but because they are not willing.

But once God has intervened and the person is 'seeking' (asking questions like the rich young ruler did) he may certainly 'consider the cost' of being a disciple (like a man going to war or building a tower in Christ's teachings) and decide the cost is too high and walk away.

People think us Calvinists go around the room trying to figure out who are His elect or that we try and make sure only His elect hear the gospel. That is not true.

I don't think that and I never made that argument...

In fact I never use the doctrine of election in a witness encounter-it never comes up. It is people who do not like this doctrine are the ones that inject this doctrine into our witness encounters; much like what you are doing

I wasn't talking about your witnessing encounter. I was talking about a hurting teenager who thinks God doesn't love him and didn't choose to save him. He thinks he is like the mass of humanity who has been rejected by God (according the Cal system), and it has lead to a feeling of hopelessness for him. I can tell him not to feel that way, but you of all people should know you can't tell people what "not to feel." This is his fear and I was the one he came to about it. I told him from both the Cal perspective and the non-Cal perspective that this fear was unfounded and why, but I speculated as to how many others may be feeling these same things because of the reformed teaching that God only salvifically loves and saves relative few that He has predetermined before they were even born. That teaching has an affect on people who have felt rejected all their lives...especially those who are caught in addiction and can't see any 'real' evidence of God's effectual working in their lives.