I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

[psalms109:31]

God loved the world that He sent His Son that whosoever believes shall not be condemned but have eternal life.

The world, the enemies of God.

I believe in the Elect chosen of God for nothing they have done like the 144,000 in revelations since no one seeks God, God choose people to seek them and that through them God is including adding to them when those who heard the Gospel of their salvation having believerd they are any body. Those like Abraham who believed God and was credited righteousness. They will not be like the few elect, they will be amount saved that can't be counted.

They trusted in God and glorified God for what He did on the cross, His work since they did no work at all. God said trust is not work.

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


So let us pray for God to send out more workers for the harvast is plenty, but the workers are few.

I praise God that He included a dog like me.

 

[Skandelon]

Imagine his joy when God breaks through and convinces him otherwise! This young man is under classical conviction, and you seem to wish to talk him out of it.

Two things:

1. If your doctrine is correct I won't be able to 'talk him out of anything,' so don't worry about it.

2. If your doctrine is incorrect it could be discouraging him by causing him to believe he is not loved and chosen by God, thus driving him away and/or causing him to give up hope.

I'd say its a 'safe bet' to tell him that God loves him, died for him and genuinely wants him to be saved.

 

[glfredrick]

Two things:

1. If your doctrine is correct I won't be able to 'talk him out of anything,' so don't worry about it.

2. If your doctrine is incorrect it could be discouraging him by causing him to believe he is not loved and chosen by God, thus driving him away and/or causing him to give up hope.

I'd say its a 'safe bet' to tell him that God loves him, died for him and genuinely wants him to be saved.

Which is, wow, the gospel!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was speaking in terms of man-centered convincing. When God convinces, no one can resist! Welcome to the ranks of Calvinism...

You dont have to use that name of course.....but the Force is strong with you Skywalfler! :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They all say the same thing.

I just don't believe all that stuff.

The bible is just a man made book.

Not everything is black and white like you say.

I think if you're good, you'll go to heaven.

I don't even believe in God.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

If you can prove God exists, then I'll believe.

I wish I could feel what you feel, but I just don't.

Well, everybody sees it differently. You don't know that you're right.

Amy, have you ever read the complete "Method of Grace" sermon by George Whitefield. I think your eyes would open! BTW, I loved the post sister! :thumbs:

 

[Skandelon]

Which is, wow, the gospel!

Well, yeah, unless its not true of him... Maybe he isn't elect and I tell him that. Then I've lied to him.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, have you ever read the complete "Method of Grace" sermon by George Whitefield. I think your eyes would open! BTW, I loved the post sister! :thumbs:

No I haven't. I'll check on it. Thanks!


Found it online. Whoa..the print is small! It will take awhile for these old eyeballs to read it. :tongue3:

 

[TCassidy]

It gives God glory is to believe Him and His word. Without faith it is impossible to please God and faith without deeds is dead and without love makes me nothing

I praise God that I can love my enemies as God does by given them their only hope Jesus. To have no doubt in God's word that He does love them that He sent His Son.

God loved the world that He sent His Son, praise Jesus.

If you want me to lean on my own understanding I will not. Go ahead and say what you want I pray to God that He will keep my heart soft and care for those who can't care for themselves and give them a hope that only Jesus can give.

They can come to Jesus.

Psalm109:31 I have said at least FIVE times that the guy heard EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGE AS YOU, but you keep saying he has to be told! HE HAS BEEN TOLD. HE HEARD THE SAME MESSAGE YOU DID! So, the question remains, WHY DID YOU GET SAVED AND HE DIDN'T.

Now please, in the name of Truth and honesty, don't dodge the question. Answer it honestly. Don't engage in any more double talk. Just give me the reason you got saved and your neighbor didn't even though you were both told EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN THE SAME MESSAGE!

Come on now! Shame the devil! Tell the truth!

 

[TCassidy]

Take heart Psalms, only some believe you are in any way attempting to glorify yourself. Most reasonably thinking folks know differently. Blessings to you.

I asked him FIVE TIME why he got saved and he refused to tell me. The only people in this thread who don't know that are the ones who simply can't think!

 

[psalms109:31]

Psalm109:31 I have said at least FIVE times that the guy heard EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGE AS YOU, but you keep saying he has to be told! HE HAS BEEN TOLD. HE HEARD THE SAME MESSAGE YOU DID! So, the question remains, WHY DID YOU GET SAVED AND HE DIDN'T.

Now please, in the name of Truth and honesty, don't dodge the question. Answer it honestly. Don't engage in any more double talk. Just give me the reason you got saved and your neighbor didn't even though you were both told EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN THE SAME MESSAGE!

Come on now! Shame the devil! Tell the truth!

I don't know ask that guy, the word of God said that He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I told you the answer over and over again because you don't get your human reason answer you are not happy with the answer. So you keep on asking to get answer that is between them and God, but God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Without asking them the answer would be an assumption.

 

[Christos doulos]

Two things:

1. If your doctrine is correct I won't be able to 'talk him out of anything,' so don't worry about it.

My friend. We don't change minds, we merely preach the gospel. Only the gospel-the power of His word changes hearts and minds, and only the elect hear His voice.

2. If your doctrine is incorrect it could be discouraging him by causing him to believe he is not loved and chosen by God, thus driving him away and/or causing him to give up hope.

My friend. This is not biblical. The bible says, there is not one that seeks after God. The bible says, we are all born at enmity with God. An unbeliever is already driven away and does not care if they are loved by the one true God. Without God's intervention; no man can come to God, not because they aren't able but because they are not willing.

I'd say its a 'safe bet' to tell him that God loves him, died for him and genuinely wants him to be saved

.

My friend. I would say, that is a safe bet as we don't know who the elect are.

People think us Calvinists go around the room trying to figure out who are His elect or that we try and make sure only His elect hear the gospel. That is not true. In fact I never use the doctrine of election in a witness encounter-it never comes up. It is people who do not like this doctrine are the ones that inject this doctrine into our witness encounters; much like what you are doing

Our job is to preach the gospel, not to differentiate who His elect are.

 

[glfredrick]

Well, yeah, unless its not true of him... Maybe he isn't elect and I tell him that. Then I've lied to him.

Since when do WE tell someone (especially before they are saved) that they are or are not the elect. Is that not God's domain?

Oh, I forgot, in your system of doctrine, man makes those decisions... :BangHead:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Since when do WE tell someone (especially before they are saved) that they are or are not the elect. Is that not God's domain?

Oh, I forgot, in your system of doctrine, man makes those decisions... :BangHead:

What you eventually end up with is a grandson with a dog collar....dont end up with a grandson with a dog collar! :laugh:

 

[Christos doulos]

Since when do WE tell someone (especially before they are saved) that they are or are not the elect. Is that not God's domain?

Oh, I forgot, in your system of doctrine, man makes those decisions... :BangHead:

My friend. I find it amazing that some of the most intelligent people of God can create so many fallacies pertaining to the doctrine of election.

In fighting this doctrine, they don't even realize how far they have swung to a man centered gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My friend. I find it amazing that some of the most intelligent people of God can create so many fallacies pertaining to the doctrine of election.

In fighting this doctrine, they don't even realize how far they have swung to a man centered gospel.

Actually they are fully aware......thats exactly what they want.

 

[annsni]

My mom came to know the Lord when I was 7 and I was saved shortly after that so I grew up a believer. Now 39 years later, I have consistently seen the same thing that I just never understood until I understood the doctrine of grace. I saw people who were presented with the same Gospel that was undeniable to me and just say "nah, no thanks". When faced with the truth of the grace of God and just what was done on the cross, they just aren't interested. It always floors me!! Understanding the Gospel - knowing our sinfulness before a holy God, just what it took to pay for that sinfulness, the fact that God Himself had to pay for those sins and that He calls us to a relationship with Him - wow. How could anyone ever turn that away??? But once I read the Scriptures and realized just how far from God man is - and how he cannot even begin to understand it in the state he's in, it made sense. Man is dead to the things of God. I see that every day. Speaking to people at ballet the other day and hearing them say that God basically grades on a curve - "Oh, if I'm good enough, God will let me into heaven." and even when my friend and I were explaining about His holiness, they brushed that off and said that He's not really like that. They look at him more like Santa or a nice old man looking to give treats to the neighborhood kids. There is no fear of God and there is just no desire for God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My mom came to know the Lord when I was 7 and I was saved shortly after that so I grew up a believer. Now 39 years later, I have consistently seen the same thing that I just never understood until I understood the doctrine of grace. I saw people who were presented with the same Gospel that was undeniable to me and just say "nah, no thanks". When faced with the truth of the grace of God and just what was done on the cross, they just aren't interested. It always floors me!! Understanding the Gospel - knowing our sinfulness before a holy God, just what it took to pay for that sinfulness, the fact that God Himself had to pay for those sins and that He calls us to a relationship with Him - wow. How could anyone ever turn that away??? But once I read the Scriptures and realized just how far from God man is - and how he cannot even begin to understand it in the state he's in, it made sense. Man is dead to the things of God. I see that every day. Speaking to people at ballet the other day and hearing them say that God basically grades on a curve - "Oh, if I'm good enough, God will let me into heaven." and even when my friend and I were explaining about His holiness, they brushed that off and said that He's not really like that. They look at him more like Santa or a nice old man looking to give treats to the neighborhood kids. There is no fear of God and there is just no desire for God.

Good commentary Anne...... If I may suggest, these folks are thinking all along that they were already Christian so why create the doctrines of Grace like Original Sin etc. See to them its unnecessary & more importantly, it really interferes with their human centered concept of religion.

 

[glfredrick]

I've coined a term, "inoculation" to describe those who have a little bit of "religion" so that they don't catch the real thing.

Seems to fit.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't know ask that guy,

So you don't know why/how you got saved?

the word of God said that He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Yes, so, for some reason God couldn't save the guy? Why not?

I told you the answer over and over again because you don't get your human reason answer you are not happy with the answer.

You have never given an answer. You just keep going around and around and around in circles.

So you keep on asking to get answer that is between them and God,

So now you agree that is because of God the other guy didn't get saved?

but God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

But God is too weak to accomplish His will?

Without asking them the answer would be an assumption.

Why should I ask them why YOU got saved? Don't YOU know?

 

[psalms109:31]

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Genesis 3
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Adam is our lesson of what not to do.

Is trusting in Jesus and His word man centered salvation or is saying it is a man-centered salvation a lie from the devil?

You lean on human reasoning I will trust and hold onto the words of Life

God loved the world that He sent His Son, that those who believe in Jesus will not be condemned but have eternal life.

God isn't weak He just isn't going to save those who don't trust in His Son. God does not need to save any of us, but His word say's He will save those who trust in His Son.