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I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

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seekingthetruth

New Member
OK, first of all, I am the "elected", the 'prechosen" and the "special" one.

Secondly, all of you that love the Lord, but are not "elected" are just left out.

And mostly, why would I bother to even share the gospel with you if you have no chance of going to heaven?

Luke? Rick? Can you explain this false gospel that you preach?

John
 
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DaChaser1

New Member
seekingthetruth said:
OK, first of all, I am the "elected", the 'prechosen" and the "special" one.

Secondly, all of you that love the Lord, but are not "elected" are just left out.

And mostly, why would I bother to even share the gospel with you if you have no chance of going to heaven?

Luke? Rick? Can you explain this false gospel that you preach?

John
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ONLY the elect of God will love the Love Jesus in a saving sense, ALL others due to theur very base/sinful natures will at worst blaspheme Him, at best see him as another 'good teacher/prophet!"

NONE will see him as Messiah, Son of God!

So those not saved by God willfully keep choosing to reject His claims to being messiah and Lord!

NO ONE that wants to come to Christ will get turned away, its just that Only the Elect will want to come unto Him to get saved!
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
DaChaser1 said:
ONLY the elect of God will love the Love Jesus in a saving sense, ALL others due to theur very base/sinful natures will at worst blaspheme Him, at best see him as another 'good teacher/prophet!"

NONE will see him as Messiah, Son of God!

So those not saved by God willfully keep choosing to reject His claims to being messiah and Lord!

NO ONE that wants to come to Christ will get turned away, its just that Only the Elect will want to come unto Him to get saved!
Click to expand...

And your theology is such an encouragement to the lost!

Thank you for that

John
 
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DaChaser1

New Member
seekingthetruth said:
You know who the lost are

We just disagree with when they are lost.

You say they are lost at birth and have no chance of salvation.

I say they are not lost until death.

John
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ALL of us are by natures lost sheep, its up to the lord to seek us out and to save us back!
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
John, you're a closet Calvinist. :tongue3: :thumbsup: :laugh:

On a serious note, I can see your frustration with "Calvinism."

In your frustration please don't assume as others what you are assuming, that is, that we preach only to the elect. No one knows who the elect are prior to salvation. Paul preached for the elects sake, 2 Timothy 2:8-10 that they would be saved, and so do we. To state that we only preach to the elect is a strawman.

Then there is the questioning of "How do you know you are elect?!" thrown at us from non-calvinists. Well, like any other believer, we were drawn to Christ and were saved, that's how we know, and as Paul, he assured those who believed that they were elect; 1 Thess. 1:4, 2 Thess. 2:13-14.

Being elect isn't a distinct and elite sub culture within the Kingdom of God, high and above other believers, it's synonymous with being a believer. I know some would have you feel otherwise.

Here are the Scriptures respectively:

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you; " 1 Thess. 1:4

"Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:8-10

"But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess. 2:13-14

- Peace
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
preacher4truth said:
John, you're a closet Calvinist. :tongue3: :thumbsup: :laugh:

On a serious note, I can see your frustration with "Calvinism."

In your frustration please don't assume as others what you are assuming, that is, that we preach only to the elect. No one knows who the elect are prior to salvation. Paul preached for the elects sake, 2 Timothy 2:8-10 that they would be saved, and so do we. To state that we only preach to the elect is a strawman.

Then there is the questioning of "How do you know you are elect?!" thrown at us from non-calvinists. Well, like any other believer, we were drawn to Christ and were saved, that's how we know, and as Paul, he assured those who believed that they were elect; 1 Thess. 1:4, 2 Thess. 2:13-14.

Being elect isn't a distinct and elite sub culture within the Kingdom of God, high and above other believers, it's synonymous with being a believer. I know some would have you feel otherwise.

Here are the Scriptures respectively:

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you; " 1 Thess. 1:4

"Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:8-10

"But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess. 2:13-14

- Peace
Click to expand...

Preacher, you are a puzzle to me.

You seem to back up Luke and the other Calvinists, but yet you have a heart for everyone.

That's the one thing I dont get about Calvinists. For instance, my church has a rescue mission that is open to everyone. Do Calvinists actually help people that they believe are not of the "elect"?

Does the HS show you who to witness to, and who is not worth the time?

These things really puzzle me about Calvinists, but you are the only one here that seems like you care. I respect you Preacher, and I do listen to your counsel, even when i disagree.

Some on here, (I cant say their name because I have been repremanded by the mods), seem to think that I am stupid for not knowing what they do. Maybe I dont, but at least you discuss it and dont call me ignorant.

Anyway, I have a lot on my plate right now at home with my wife being sick. I will be back in a day or two and debate this some more.

PS.....Please tell your friends to not call Jesus a Calvinist....I would deeply appreciate it

John
 
Skandelon

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
John,

I was a Calvinist for a while and I assure you that most are just as evangelistic as most of us are. They don't claim to know who is or isn't chosen, so they preach to all like we do.

Some here come across a bit over zealous (myself included at times), but most here are probably pretty good folks who really love Jesus...yes, even Luke and Aaron. ;)

Oh, and when they refer to Jesus as a "Calvinist" I think they just meant that they believe, as we do, that Jesus agrees with our differing soteriological views. I wouldn't take it quite so seriously. I hope that helps. :)
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
seekingthetruth said:
Preacher, you are a puzzle to me.

You seem to back up Luke and the other Calvinists, but yet you have a heart for everyone.

That's the one thing I dont get about Calvinists. For instance, my church has a rescue mission that is open to everyone. Do Calvinists actually help people that they believe are not of the "elect"?

Does the HS show you who to witness to, and who is not worth the time?

These things really puzzle me about Calvinists, but you are the only one here that seems like you care. I respect you Preacher, and I do listen to your counsel, even when i disagree.

Some on here, (I cant say their name because I have been repremanded by the mods), seem to think that I am stupid for not knowing what they do. Maybe I dont, but at least you discuss it and dont call me ignorant.

Anyway, I have a lot on my plate right now at home with my wife being sick. I will be back in a day or two and debate this some more.

PS.....Please tell your friends to not call Jesus a Calvinist....I would deeply appreciate it

John
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Well, "Calvinists" that I know of preach to everyone, as they should.

Do we know who is elect? No.

But God does:

"But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship,and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: "HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER; AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT, SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH."IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY; WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION? FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH."
The eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?" Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing. But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities until he came to Caesarea." Acts 8:26-40

Sometimes we feel God telling us to share the Gospel with someone. I've had this happen, and the person had gotten saved. Only God knows who the elect are.

Mods on ya? Be glad you're not a Calvinist! :love2: :wavey:

Blessings to your family.

- Peace


*by the way, its "Francis Sawyer" they pronounce it "Soyer" a.k.a. "Psycho."

...and then there's "Maude." :laugh: :thumbsup:
 
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quantumfaith

Active Member
Skandelon said:
John,

I was a Calvinist for a while and I assure you that most are just as evangelistic as most of us are. They don't claim to know who is or isn't chosen, so they preach to all like we do.

Some here come across a bit over zealous (myself included at times), but most here are probably pretty good folks who really love Jesus...yes, even Luke and Aaron. ;)

Oh, and when they refer to Jesus as a "Calvinist" I think they just meant that they believe, as we do, that Jesus agrees with our differing soteriological views. I wouldn't take it quite so seriously. I hope that helps. :)
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
You know who the lost are

We just disagree with when they are lost.

You say they are lost at birth and have no chance of salvation.

I say they are not lost until death.

John
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you mean there all saved till they die? There sins play no significant part in their lives till they drop dead?
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
Earth said:
you mean there all saved till they die? There sins play no significant part in their lives till they drop dead?
Click to expand...

I have noticed that you have a hard time with grammer. Are you American? Is English your native language? Did you take English in High School?

If you are foriegn to this country, then I apoligise.

John
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
No, Einstien

I mean we are not lost until we die....meaning, we all have a oppurtunity to be saved until we die.

We might be born lost, but if we die lost then it is our choice, and not God's fault.

John
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OK Shakespeare..... communicate a little more adequately & maybe you would be understood the first time. Also may I suggest a bit less emoting on your part. It might serve you better to quit vilifying people & simply ask them to clarify statements you find derogatory....clue, you might learn something.
 
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