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If a Christian commits suicide...
- Thread starter fromtheright
- Start date
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I do not boast of self. My soul, like David's, boasts in the Lord.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I have produced all the scripture necessary. Revelation does not say some murderers will be cast into the lake of fire. He says all murderers.
Charles Meadows
New Member
So then murder is an unforgivable sin?
THAT is not scriptural.
THAT is not scriptural.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
LadyEagle, they attack not me, but the Spirit of Christ that is in me.
Yes, but no Christian is a murderer, regardless of his actions.
When God sees a Christian, he sees CHRIST, not our sin.
I may be repeating myself, but sins past, present, and future were covered by the blood. Forgiveness wasn't given a time limit.
There's weak and strong Christians, strong Christians who act in moments of weakness, weak Christians who are strong at moments.
ALL have eternal life though.
I'm sorry you're not seeing this, truly I am.
I feel like you're not really hearing what I'm saying, but holding onto the same thing without honestly thinking about it, and not addressing some of the questions with any depth.
As a pastor I know you're capable of more reasoning that has been provided, and I hope to see that from you. I know people get rough on here, but please feel free to ignore them and go ahead and get in depth, that's what we're here for!
In His Grace
New Member
We are not attacking standingfirminChrist personally,
we are attacking his twisted doctrine in relation to "if a Christian committs suicide".
His agruements have been refuted over and over, his logic doesn't stand to the Word of God, he is inconsistent on what he is standing for, and I would say 99% to 100% of us here on this board do not agree with him.
A lot us here are very, very, passionate on preaching Salvation by grace through faith in Christ for ALL our sins,(past, present, and future sins, including suicide by a saved person, no matter what state of mind they may be in, even in unrepented sin).
So when we hear this twisted doctrine coming from standingfirminChrist, it offends the Lord Jesus Christ and the payment he made for us on the cross.
Yes, we are very much offended.
we are attacking his twisted doctrine in relation to "if a Christian committs suicide".
His agruements have been refuted over and over, his logic doesn't stand to the Word of God, he is inconsistent on what he is standing for, and I would say 99% to 100% of us here on this board do not agree with him.
A lot us here are very, very, passionate on preaching Salvation by grace through faith in Christ for ALL our sins,(past, present, and future sins, including suicide by a saved person, no matter what state of mind they may be in, even in unrepented sin).
So when we hear this twisted doctrine coming from standingfirminChrist, it offends the Lord Jesus Christ and the payment he made for us on the cross.
Yes, we are very much offended.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Amen
standingfirminChrist
New Member
you are not attacking my doctrine, you are attacking God's Holy Word
In His Grace
New Member
correction: your twisted doctrine is attacking God's Holy Word.
As I said before it is offensive to the Lord Jesus Christ and the payment he made for us on the cross.
As I said before it is offensive to the Lord Jesus Christ and the payment he made for us on the cross.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
no matter what you say, Revelation 21:8 stands. And just because a person makes a profession of faith does not necessarily mean that person is saved.
The devils also believe, but are not saved.
The devils also believe, but are not saved.
My dear Brethren,
I do appreciate standingfirminchrist's genuine conviction in this matter. Can we all just agree to disagree without getting all disagreeable about it?
I also believe his theology on this matter is wrong, but it is obvious that after 16 pages of discussion nobody is going to change his mind, and it does not appear that he is having any success in doing anything but twisting the cat's tail to make it wail.
IMHO it's time to shut this baby down.
I do appreciate standingfirminchrist's genuine conviction in this matter. Can we all just agree to disagree without getting all disagreeable about it?
I also believe his theology on this matter is wrong, but it is obvious that after 16 pages of discussion nobody is going to change his mind, and it does not appear that he is having any success in doing anything but twisting the cat's tail to make it wail.
IMHO it's time to shut this baby down.
Charles Meadows
New Member
no matter what you say, Revelation 21:8 stands. And just because a person makes a profession of faith does not necessarily mean that person is saved.
Then how is one saved?
After reading your posts I get the feeling that you regard ANY sin after salvation as evidence that salvation did not occur.
Believers still sin. But unlike the lost they have forgiveness through Christ.
Now I agree that one who continues to sin wilfully WITHOUT CONVICTION after salvation probably did not really get saved.
But I think you are pushing that way to far. Do you not see that by doing so you limit the power of grace?
You say that murderers will go to the lake of fire. True enough. But what is the verse saying? You seem to read it as saying that anyone who kills automatically commits an unforgivable sin (and doesn't the Bible say otherwise?). The point is that sinners will not escape the just judgment of God - not that all who commit that particular sin will be condemned to hell.
Then how is one saved?
After reading your posts I get the feeling that you regard ANY sin after salvation as evidence that salvation did not occur.
Believers still sin. But unlike the lost they have forgiveness through Christ.
Now I agree that one who continues to sin wilfully WITHOUT CONVICTION after salvation probably did not really get saved.
But I think you are pushing that way to far. Do you not see that by doing so you limit the power of grace?
You say that murderers will go to the lake of fire. True enough. But what is the verse saying? You seem to read it as saying that anyone who kills automatically commits an unforgivable sin (and doesn't the Bible say otherwise?). The point is that sinners will not escape the just judgment of God - not that all who commit that particular sin will be condemned to hell.
Revelation 21:8 the wording of which indicates to me that the unregenerate are being addressed here whose lives are characterized by sin of one kind or another.
The Book of Revelation in the opening chapter begins with
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.
While these in Revelation 1:5 lives might have been characterized at one time by the sins of those in Revelation 21:8, they are now washed of these sins, the blood of Christ powerful enough to cleanse from ALL sin (past, present, future).
That the sins of those in 21:8 remain simply proves that they were not saved and did not have their sins washed in the blood of Christ.
This premise has been said many times using many Scripture.
HankD
The Book of Revelation in the opening chapter begins with
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.
While these in Revelation 1:5 lives might have been characterized at one time by the sins of those in Revelation 21:8, they are now washed of these sins, the blood of Christ powerful enough to cleanse from ALL sin (past, present, future).
That the sins of those in 21:8 remain simply proves that they were not saved and did not have their sins washed in the blood of Christ.
This premise has been said many times using many Scripture.
HankD
There seem to be two answers depending on varying theological foundations:
1. Salvation is part mixed with works because you have to have everything confessed before you die or you go to Hell. There is no eternal security.
2. Salvation is all grace and although you may die with unconfessed sin, it is covered by the blood and though you may lose rewards you will not lose salvation. There is eternal security.
--------------------------------
For the record I do believe suicide to be wrong. I believe the only sin which is unforgiveable is attributing the works of Christ to Satan. That, in practical terms, amounts to dying without repentance and putting our faith and trust in Christ and recieving salvation.
There is another argument running, it appears, as to whether a Christian committing a sin becomes by nature what that sin is. i.e. a Christian who lies becomes by nature a liar. I do not believe so. I John 5 speaks of a sin unto death. Regarding the Lord's table it speaks of those who "sleep" because of their sin. In that he referred to them in a condition of "sleep" I believe they died in sin but were awaiting the rapture when they would be awakened. If they were doubly dead, physically and spiritually, they would not be referred to as asleep.
I believe it is a matter of a Christian who lies still has the Holy Spirit, is still a New Creature in Christ and has sinned, thus breaking the fellowship with God but not losing salvation.
God the Father looks upon us and sees the righteousness of the Son.
MNW
1. Salvation is part mixed with works because you have to have everything confessed before you die or you go to Hell. There is no eternal security.
2. Salvation is all grace and although you may die with unconfessed sin, it is covered by the blood and though you may lose rewards you will not lose salvation. There is eternal security.
--------------------------------
For the record I do believe suicide to be wrong. I believe the only sin which is unforgiveable is attributing the works of Christ to Satan. That, in practical terms, amounts to dying without repentance and putting our faith and trust in Christ and recieving salvation.
There is another argument running, it appears, as to whether a Christian committing a sin becomes by nature what that sin is. i.e. a Christian who lies becomes by nature a liar. I do not believe so. I John 5 speaks of a sin unto death. Regarding the Lord's table it speaks of those who "sleep" because of their sin. In that he referred to them in a condition of "sleep" I believe they died in sin but were awaiting the rapture when they would be awakened. If they were doubly dead, physically and spiritually, they would not be referred to as asleep.
I believe it is a matter of a Christian who lies still has the Holy Spirit, is still a New Creature in Christ and has sinned, thus breaking the fellowship with God but not losing salvation.
God the Father looks upon us and sees the righteousness of the Son.
MNW