Precisely! :thumbs:
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If a person never hears about God, what will happen that person after death?
- Thread starter rednaut
- Start date
Precisely! :thumbs:
convicted1
Guest
Amy's becoming a Calvinist.....na na na na boo boo!!
Alright there! No Denney's for you! :laugh:
Alive in Christ
New Member
No Denny's??
I thought we all were all going to meet up for some pancakes???
I was even going to invite Iconoclast!
I thought we all were all going to meet up for some pancakes???
I was even going to invite Iconoclast!
Here are some verses to consider...
....these are not the only answers/Scriptures to this question, but they give us a beginning point to some respect:
•John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
•John 14:6, Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.
•Acts 4:12, “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.”
•Rom. 10:12-15 "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; 13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD will be saved.” 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!”
•1 Tim. 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time."
•1 John 5:11-12, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
•Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
THERE IS ALSO THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATION (it is long and involved, but it is a well-thought-out study, even though it may not be theologically in line with what some of you believe, it is something to chew on - spiritually speaking that is!
http://www.biblequery.org/Doctrine/NeverHeardTheGospel/WhatIfTheyNeverHeardOfJesus.htm
http://christianthinktank.com/hnohear.html
Enjoy. I hope they provide some different views and thoughts to incorporate into your thoughts on this GREAT question!
....these are not the only answers/Scriptures to this question, but they give us a beginning point to some respect:
•John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
•John 14:6, Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.
•Acts 4:12, “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.”
•Rom. 10:12-15 "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; 13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD will be saved.” 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!”
•1 Tim. 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time."
•1 John 5:11-12, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
•Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
THERE IS ALSO THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATION (it is long and involved, but it is a well-thought-out study, even though it may not be theologically in line with what some of you believe, it is something to chew on - spiritually speaking that is!
http://www.biblequery.org/Doctrine/NeverHeardTheGospel/WhatIfTheyNeverHeardOfJesus.htm
http://christianthinktank.com/hnohear.html
Enjoy. I hope they provide some different views and thoughts to incorporate into your thoughts on this GREAT question!
Tom Butler
New Member
Romans 1 & 2 provide the answer to the OP question.
Paul tells us that creation itself should suggest the existence of a Creator. Natural law suggests the existence of a Lawgiver.
One problem I see is, though they may suggest evidence of God, they do not tell us anything about the Lord Jesus.
Further, Paul says that the requirements of the law is written upon the heart. By that, I take it to mean that they have their own moral code of right and wrong. Romans 2:14 says "they are a law unto themselves."
It is that moral code that will form the basis of condemnation. We who have the scriptures as a guide know that even we believers still sin. We can't keep Jesus' commandments perfectly.
The same for those who know nothing about Jesus. They can't even keep their own moral code they themselves try to adhere to. So they will have to acknowledge that God is just, that they deserve the condemnation.
Thus, anyone who maintains that God will not condemn those who have never heard the gospel are partly right. The will not be judged for rejecting Jesus, of whom they have never heard.
To maintain that they should not be held accountable, and thus are given a free pass to heaven, presents another problem. If that is the case, then let's bring all our missionaries home. God forbid that those missionaries should carry the gospel to a group for the first time, and have them reject it. They will be condemned to hell, when leaving them along would have assured them entrance to heaven.
Now, let's talk about AIC's post:
How can this happen? Does God simply implant in their minds the truth about his existence, the truth about sin, the truth about the Son, the truth about his dying for sinners, the truth about how one comes into a right relationship with God? It just pops into his mind?
I'm sure some agree with AIC that for God to justly and fairly condemn the people we're talking about, they must have heard the gospel someway, somehow, and rejected it. Otherwise, it's just not fair!
But Paul, in I Cor 1:21 says it pleases God to save through the foolishness of preaching. I don't think that gives us much wiggle room.
It is with that reality, that God calls and sets apart preachers, evangelists, missionaries, and us ordinary folks, with the commission to go into all the world, preaching, teaching and baptizing.
Paul tells us that creation itself should suggest the existence of a Creator. Natural law suggests the existence of a Lawgiver.
One problem I see is, though they may suggest evidence of God, they do not tell us anything about the Lord Jesus.
Further, Paul says that the requirements of the law is written upon the heart. By that, I take it to mean that they have their own moral code of right and wrong. Romans 2:14 says "they are a law unto themselves."
It is that moral code that will form the basis of condemnation. We who have the scriptures as a guide know that even we believers still sin. We can't keep Jesus' commandments perfectly.
The same for those who know nothing about Jesus. They can't even keep their own moral code they themselves try to adhere to. So they will have to acknowledge that God is just, that they deserve the condemnation.
Thus, anyone who maintains that God will not condemn those who have never heard the gospel are partly right. The will not be judged for rejecting Jesus, of whom they have never heard.
To maintain that they should not be held accountable, and thus are given a free pass to heaven, presents another problem. If that is the case, then let's bring all our missionaries home. God forbid that those missionaries should carry the gospel to a group for the first time, and have them reject it. They will be condemned to hell, when leaving them along would have assured them entrance to heaven.
Now, let's talk about AIC's post:
How can this happen? Does God simply implant in their minds the truth about his existence, the truth about sin, the truth about the Son, the truth about his dying for sinners, the truth about how one comes into a right relationship with God? It just pops into his mind?
I'm sure some agree with AIC that for God to justly and fairly condemn the people we're talking about, they must have heard the gospel someway, somehow, and rejected it. Otherwise, it's just not fair!
But Paul, in I Cor 1:21 says it pleases God to save through the foolishness of preaching. I don't think that gives us much wiggle room.
It is with that reality, that God calls and sets apart preachers, evangelists, missionaries, and us ordinary folks, with the commission to go into all the world, preaching, teaching and baptizing.
Alive in Christ
New Member
righteousdude2.....
Those are great scriptures, thanks for shaing them.
Those are great scriptures, thanks for shaing them.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Tom Butler...
I dont know.I am not God. I just know what God said. That being that He gives "Light"..(potentially saving revelation) to every single person who comes ito the world. For most its the Gosple of Jesus Christ. But multiplied millons of people have lived and died without ever hearing. What most evangelicals say, unfortunetly. is....tough luck for them. Too bad. Hell is thier doom.
God says different.
Absolutely. That is the normal way. But life is not always fair. And I refuse to join with the crowd and say...tough luck for those who never heard. Hell fire is thier doom. And the reason why I dont take that view is that God says, more than once, in the scriptures, that we can be sure that those ones who never heard will be givin "light", and will be given a choice to make, just like all of us do.
Absolutely. Nobody is denying that. But if we cant get to them in time, God will give them light, so that they can choose. He tells us that He will right in the scriptures.
I dont know.I am not God. I just know what God said. That being that He gives "Light"..(potentially saving revelation) to every single person who comes ito the world. For most its the Gosple of Jesus Christ. But multiplied millons of people have lived and died without ever hearing. What most evangelicals say, unfortunetly. is....tough luck for them. Too bad. Hell is thier doom.
God says different.
Absolutely. That is the normal way. But life is not always fair. And I refuse to join with the crowd and say...tough luck for those who never heard. Hell fire is thier doom. And the reason why I dont take that view is that God says, more than once, in the scriptures, that we can be sure that those ones who never heard will be givin "light", and will be given a choice to make, just like all of us do.
Absolutely. Nobody is denying that. But if we cant get to them in time, God will give them light, so that they can choose. He tells us that He will right in the scriptures.
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if Willis keeps giving me stress...he will have to pay for his milk and orange juice:thumbs: and leave the tip!
AIC.
The thing is AIC.....you say that.....but the bible never says that anywhere...not even once,much less many times:thumbs:
I have not heard people say this, I hear them pray for missionaries to reach the lost.
The thing is AIC.....you say that.....but the bible never says that anywhere...not even once,much less many times:thumbs:
I have not heard people say this, I hear them pray for missionaries to reach the lost.
freeatlast
New Member
Hello rednaut,
Keep in mind that God gets no pleasure of the death of the unrighteous (EZK 33:11). He would that all men come to repentance and faith be saved. He also has given every person enough light because of the creation to have understanding that there is a God.
It is true that the initial light does not enlighten them to the teachings of Christianity, but it gives them enough light to make a choice about if they want more light to know the truth about him. The person has to act on that first light to get more.
If a person wants to know then I believe that God will get the truth to them usually by way of missionaries. Or by way of that person leaving where they are and being introduced to the gospel. The bottom line is that everyone who is saved has to hear and has to accept the gospel. There just is no exceptions.
Romans 10: 13-14 makes this clear.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Every person who is saved has to hear and call to be saved. One thing to keep in mind. Salvation is a gift to those who are not worthy to receive the gift. It is total mercy. No one deserves the gift and more then that no one even deserves to hear the message so they can choose the gift. Every aspect of salvation is because of mercy.
Everyone has to come the same way and that requires hearing the truth, but the initial light is given and we all start there. Then it is up to God to get more light to those who will accept by sending missionaries. He knows the hearts of man and I do not believe that a single person has ever went to hell who wanted to know the truth. Not that they get some special waver, but that some how God gets the message to them so they can receive His truth and be saved.
Let me ask you a question. How did you hear the message of the gospel and what did you do to get saved?
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plain_n_simple
Active Member
God is a just God. If a person never hears the Gospel and stands before Him, that person will have an opportunity to accept or reject. Knowing the heart of God and His will tells me this.
The Bible says that those without Christ at death are "without excuse"
It does NOT mean that they will be "excused"----but that they do not have an excuse for not being saved
Brother David
Please give the class Scripture TRUTH that will back up your statement!!!!
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Stop yelling, we all know the scriptures. If a person never heard(that is debatable)while living on earth, then dies, how can he accept or reject? God is not an unfair God.
Who says anything about a "fair" God
Give us Scripture that backs up your previous statement!!!
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Stop yelling at me !!!! Slow down on the coffee. If you think that God will send someone to hell, without giving them the opportunity to accept or reject, that is your option. You know the scriptures. If you know the heart of God, you know that He is a just God.
I'm not plain_n_simple and I'm not saying that this scripture applies.
But it's as close to a possibility that I can find...
Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
HankD
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ashleysdad
Member
Yes that verse does say God will judge justly, but according to whose standard of justice? Romans 1 still very clearly says that God has revealed Himself to mankind in a way that leaves them without excuse, and John 3 still says that without believing in Jesus we are already under condemnation. If we truly believed that those who never heard the Gospel would have that fabled "one last chance" when they stood before God than we need to STOP preaching and teaching because by the very fact of our preaching we are eliminating that "one last chance". What it all comes down to is this. Yes God is a just God but it is His sense of Justice that He holds Himself to not ours, God in His justice has declared the world guilty before Him (Romans 1) and declared what the sentence would be for that guilt (Romans 5). God in His mercy has given a way of escape in the person of Jesus His Son and His atonement for our sins and God has stipulated that this is THE only way to be saved. God has also commanded and commissioned His church to take this message to the whole world and preach the Gospel of salvation and forgiveness in Christ and Christ alone. There is no other way, there is no plan b. None of this is vague or hard to understand. We just don't like what it says.