Last edited by a moderator:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If anyone care about facts.
- Thread starter HeirofSalvation
- Start date
- Status
Sigh......Dr. Flowers would not condone the language used in snip the op. Such language is divisive and an example of why things get so heated around here. Furthermore, it is not necessary.
Last edited by a moderator:
He arguably would support it. and that's why I use it.
Flowers may be non-confrontational by nature, but I am not.
I am passionate about truth.
Flowers' personal tendencies are not a concern of mine.
I remember nearly ten years ago...when Flowers was still active on this board as an Administrator, that I suggested that I believed that Calvinists would support genuine persecution of non-Calvinists if they could...
He, being sensitive at the time.....docked my post and assigned points against me because I expressed that belief....
It wasn't two days later that Aaron (the passionate Calvinist) supported the notion of persecuting non-Calvinists and he used the flame-thrower emote which is no longer available here.
Here's what's really happened...The difference between you and I, Mark, (My name is Mark) is you've spent too much time amongst these folks.
They will never embrace you.....and they will use you only so far as you serve their purpose.
And, it is also true that Augustine was a gnostic heretic of the utmost degree which this video demonstrates, (and you could not have possibly watched it mathematically, in the time it took you to respond)
This video...which is a P.H.D. from Oxford of a man who demonstrates that Augustine's Philosophy was errant, Gnostic to the core, and heretical....
You won't entertain it, because it might upset an apple-cart you've already set up as the standard for debate.
Flowers may be non-confrontational by nature, but I am not.
I am passionate about truth.
Flowers' personal tendencies are not a concern of mine.
I remember nearly ten years ago...when Flowers was still active on this board as an Administrator, that I suggested that I believed that Calvinists would support genuine persecution of non-Calvinists if they could...
He, being sensitive at the time.....docked my post and assigned points against me because I expressed that belief....
It wasn't two days later that Aaron (the passionate Calvinist) supported the notion of persecuting non-Calvinists and he used the flame-thrower emote which is no longer available here.
Here's what's really happened...The difference between you and I, Mark, (My name is Mark) is you've spent too much time amongst these folks.
They will never embrace you.....and they will use you only so far as you serve their purpose.
And, it is also true that Augustine was a gnostic heretic of the utmost degree which this video demonstrates, (and you could not have possibly watched it mathematically, in the time it took you to respond)
This video...which is a P.H.D. from Oxford of a man who demonstrates that Augustine's Philosophy was errant, Gnostic to the core, and heretical....
You won't entertain it, because it might upset an apple-cart you've already set up as the standard for debate.
I can't see your post Hollow man. Literally, I can't see it.
Can I ask you a question Mitchell?
Do you disagree with the conclusion or doctor Wilson's facts?
No, the one you posted....
I literally couldn't see it.
It was your post #4....
I couldn't see it at the time.
I can now...refreshing or my P.C. catching up...whatever...
Is your argument going to be that Augustine wasn't the Gnostic heretic that the video demonstrates because you want to accuse me of being disingenuous about whether I could see your post in real time????
I think it is.
That's the argument your mounting.
It's a STRONG argument....roll with it, it'll convince millions I promise
I get that you're venting, but probably try not to be so provocative? I'm Calvinist because of my understanding of God's sovereignty. And, it doesn't seem reasonable to me that anyone's salvation is left up to human frailty. Why should my neighbor be lost because I didn't do a good enough job ministering to him?
I'm not venting...
I'm sharing a video, which does make a very provocative, but I believe true point.
I don't care why you're a Calvinist...
That isn't the point of this thread.
This thread isn't about "Shoostie's personal hang-ups about why a real or invented neighbor either does, or does not accept Christ"...
It's a thread about the Gnostic origins of the Philosophy of Augustine...
I can't imagine what level of Narcissism it requires to think this thread is about you.
No one was thinking about you when we posted this, we want everyone to be informed, and the link will be reposted here:
Was St. Augustine the First to Introduce “Calvinism” to the Church?
Particular
Well-Known Member
Jesus and the Apostles were Particular Baptists. Everyone knows this...[emoji2958][emoji57][emoji16]
I could not conceivably care less, do you have an intelligent response to the video content?
What is your response to the video content?
I repost here:Was St. Augustine the First to Introduce “Calvinism” to the Church?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The Spirit if my Lord and Savior has given me peace in my heart. I sincerely desire that you experience that same kind of peace.
I can disagree with folks about all kinds of things and still desire they experience peace.
Peace to you
Welcome to the world of the Church fathers.
I'm afraid I haven't watched your video. It's nearly an hour long and I have a life. Sorry!It's actually pretty well known that Augustine wrote some dire stuff. From a Baptist pov he was the guy who most firmly established infant 'baptism' within the Church.
But as a 'Calvinist,' it matters not a jot nor tittle to me whether Augustine believed in sovereign grace. All that matters is that the Bible teaches it, which of course it does.
Welcome to the world of the Church fathers.
It's actually pretty well known that Augustine wrote some dire stuff. From a Baptist pov he was the guy who most firmly established infant 'baptism' within the Church.
But as a 'Calvinist,' it matters not a jot nor tittle to me whether Augustine believed in sovereign grace. All that matters is that the Bible teaches it, which of course it does.
If you respond to this immaturity it will only encourage more of it.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
First of all, calling someone a “heretic” that disagrees with you does not qualify as intelligent debate.
Thanks for the conversation.
Peace to you
Particular
Well-Known Member
There is no intelligent response to that video. [emoji57]
My view of the video:
The question is asked, is it a coincidence that the Manicheans, the Gnostics which upon Augustine formed his doctrines, used all the same scriptures that are used by Calvinist today to swing away from Free Will into a Manicheanistic Gnostic/Stoic’ view of Determinism to support the doctrines which Augustine introduced?
BTW, this is not new information, what Dr. Flowers is examining. Did any of the church fathers teach Determinism before Augustine introduced it? NO. For 400 years there was no conflict between human Free Will and Divine Sovereignty, until Augustine. The video in the Op is merely presenting a more in-depth look at the roots of Calvinism through Dr. Ken Wilson studies on the subject leading back to its origins which are clearly Gnostic and were and are considered heretical.
The question is asked, is it a coincidence that the Manicheans, the Gnostics which upon Augustine formed his doctrines, used all the same scriptures that are used by Calvinist today to swing away from Free Will into a Manicheanistic Gnostic/Stoic’ view of Determinism to support the doctrines which Augustine introduced?
BTW, this is not new information, what Dr. Flowers is examining. Did any of the church fathers teach Determinism before Augustine introduced it? NO. For 400 years there was no conflict between human Free Will and Divine Sovereignty, until Augustine. The video in the Op is merely presenting a more in-depth look at the roots of Calvinism through Dr. Ken Wilson studies on the subject leading back to its origins which are clearly Gnostic and were and are considered heretical.
So, As stated...…...
Other than an attempt to shut down debate:
Does anyone have an intelligent response to this video:
Was St. Augustine the First to Introduce “Calvinism” to the Church?
Other than an attempt to shut down debate:
Does anyone have an intelligent response to this video:
Was St. Augustine the First to Introduce “Calvinism” to the Church?
Particular
Well-Known Member
This is such a fruitless thread. The issue of what Augustine believed is irrelevant to what the Bible teaches.
What the Bible teaches is that God chooses, elects and predestined sinners unto redemption. I'm satisfied with what God teaches.
What the Bible teaches is that God chooses, elects and predestined sinners unto redemption. I'm satisfied with what God teaches.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'll simply respond to the title...
No, he wasn't.
He was one in a long line of people who came into the church as its doctrines were in the process of going south.
Instead of "Sovereign Grace" being taught along with believer's baptism and other things, many doctrinal teachings had already gone off track.
From my perspective, the real church had gone underground after the first century, and what remained in the places Paul had originally preached the Gospel in and the Lord had formed churches at, was no more than a spiritually dead shell of what had started.
In other words, it had become a mix of believers and unbelievers, error and truth.
Mostly unbelievers, I'm thinking.
No, he wasn't.
He was one in a long line of people who came into the church as its doctrines were in the process of going south.
Instead of "Sovereign Grace" being taught along with believer's baptism and other things, many doctrinal teachings had already gone off track.
From my perspective, the real church had gone underground after the first century, and what remained in the places Paul had originally preached the Gospel in and the Lord had formed churches at, was no more than a spiritually dead shell of what had started.
In other words, it had become a mix of believers and unbelievers, error and truth.
Mostly unbelievers, I'm thinking.
Last edited:
- Status