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If God is Not Sovereign, Then There is No Grace
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Bonar is so perverted in his thoughts of who God is that he can't see the God that grants righteousness to "whosoever will" believe Him.
And so it is with those old dead men who could only picture a God who reserves the right to send anyone He chooses to Hell just be cause He can.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Romans 9:19-24
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
In those verses Paul is speaking of man who find fault with God in the predicament they find themselves in against God.
Paul tells them who do you think you are blaming God, saying why has God created me in this fashion?
Paul goes on the tell them that it is necessary for God to demonstrate His wrath as well as His mercy on man.
Then Paul enters into his main topic of the Jews not being the only ones called by God to salvation, but also the Gentiles.
Paul's main point is that God has the power to give all men, Jews and Gentiles the power to choose to be a vessel of honor or dishonor.
God is not the blame, as men blame Him, giving man the choice to chose to be of honor or dishonor.
Man becoming a creation of honor or dishonor is not determined by God, they are made of the same lump and will receive His wrath or mercy by their choice.
He knows who will be the vessels of Wrath, and is long suffering with them, 9:22.
God is long suffering with those who will receive his wrath in the end, not willing that any should perish. It hurts God to see his greatest creation receive His wrath.
This is the God Calvin, Gill, Bonar, Philpot, and host of others could not see!
This is the God I know and serve.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
The death here God is speaking of is a spiritual death, eternal separation from God.
He is addressing there the Faithful remnant that he had called out among each generation
Sounds like a plea to turn to repentance to me, or face the consequnces.
But you will see it your way and I will see it mine according to the God we project from Scripture.
God always had a faithful spiritual israel within national israel even in the OT
Yes, I agree and He has one now in Israel.
But these that God called on Ezekiel to intervene in His name were not of that remnant.
God was pleading for salvation with these.
It's unfathomable for the Calvinist to even consider the loss of salvation, but here in Ezekiel 33:12-20 that is exactly what we have.
The righteous turning from their righteousness. It has nothing to do with works but the faith they no longer have which is wickedness.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I'd be willing to bet you've never read Bonar. Believe me, he's solid. He actually taught that it is man's duty to immediately believe upon hearing the gospel and that every moment of failing to do so was one of the worst sins a man could do. And the only thing keeping a man from doing so is his own obstinance and self will and love of sin. But, as a Calvinist, he believed that that was really the problem, not that once provided the information, his inner goodness could be appealed to and he might just make the right decision.
I've read Calvin's commentary and he was solid, I learned much from him in my early years.
He was just wrong on what we were predestined and chosen for.
Calvin gets a bad wrap for predestination, but his faith was in Christ and I agree with Spurgeon that he may be so close to the Throne of God that I may not be able to see him.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
And there in we see Bonar's blind spot. He could not allow himself to believe that man, even obstinate sinners as we all were, could respond in faith unless God forced them to do so via the calvinist Irresistible Grace.
But the question is then what kind of God would judge man for not doing what he was unable to do. Remember that in calvinism God determines all man's thoughts and deeds.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I understand how people feel. The way some Calvinists present God's sovereignty is almost like "don't think you can just come to Christ any time you want". When the fact is, we have a direct promise that if we do come he will receive us. The problem is we tend to not want to come. No one who comes to Christ need ever worry that he's not elect or may not be chosen. But if you should see the value of coming to Christ do not refuse or delay because you did not work that up in yourself. Refuse at your own peril because if the Spirit does not call again you will not come.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
He did believe that they would not. Take it or leave it but the inability is moral. They believed that man was in such a state that his tendency was to not see any value in coming to Christ. Maybe they went too far but I know Bonar never taught that God would not want anyone to be saved. I was reading some Calvinist somewhere who said Bonar was OK, but maybe a little too "free grace". But I like him.