If I were a Calvinist...

[Amy.G]

When I first became a Christian my god parents ( UK tradition ) bought me a book undermining the Bible. Great start, under fire from the word go.

That's how the devil works. He started to pull you away from God immediately. It happened to me too. It's happened to a lot of people I know. But I found out that I really am safe in God's hand and no one can snatch me away. :godisgood:

 

[David Michael Harris]

I remember the night in bed before my baptism to, I had a tremendous pain in my mouth and throat. Next day I testified before all the importance of Jesus Christ in this life.

 

[saturneptune]

If you believe that God has already decided who will come to Christ and who will not, why would you pray for anyones salvation?



No one knows for certain who is going to hell, but there are evidences that cause a person to lean one way or another.

I never said I was a Calvinist, those are your words. Your second statement is also flawed, in that the post to which you refer said "surely bound for hell."

It seems to me your problem is a limited mindset to two positions man created, that being Calvinism or Arminianism. Who ever said those are the only two possibilities? Sometimes it is good to think outside the box.

The reason I pray, is that the Lord tells us to do so. I do not base prayer on which side of a theological argument I agree or disagree with. Maybe you should try that.

 

[AresMan]

I think John Calvin was rather presumptuous saying that all children of believers will be saved.

That's not what he said. He said that all children of believing parents will be "covenant" children. If you understand Covenant Theology (most Presbyterians believe this), then you would know that children being born in the "covenant" are not necessarily going to be saved, although the expectation of it is very high.

 

[OldRegular]

That's what I believe. Prayer is a mysterious thing. It surely is meant to conform our will to God's and not His will to ours.

Amy.G

I found your response above on prayer intriguing. Several years ago while teaching a lesson on prayer I came across the following statement about prayer. It was in the context of commenting on the following Scripture:

2 Corinthians 12:8,9, NKJV
8. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Commenting on this passage W. Bingham Hunter [The God Who Hears] writes:

“Paul’s experience highlights the simple but profound truth that prayer is not the means by which we get what we want, rather it is a means that God uses to give us what he wants.”

I don't know who Hunter is but I believe this is the best definition of prayer I have read.

 

[Amy.G]

That's not what he said. He said that all children of believing parents will be "covenant" children. If you understand Covenant Theology (most Presbyterians believe this), then you would know that children being born in the "covenant" are not necessarily going to be saved, although the expectation of it is very high.

That is not what he said. :laugh:

He said "heirs of the covenant". What covenant? And if heirs, then what is it they inherit?

Are you saying Calvin meant they inherit a "high expectation" of salvation?

It is clear from the the wording "heirs of the covenant" that he meant salvation.

 

[Amy.G]

“Paul’s experience highlights the simple but profound truth that prayer is not the means by which we get what we want, rather it is a means that God uses to give us what he wants.”

I don't know who Hunter is but I believe this is the best definition of prayer I have read.

I think that's a good definition too. I think it's part of being conformed to the image of Christ. His prayers were always for the will of the Father.

 

[Marcia]

The first child born was of the evil one.

Would you explain this statement? I sure hope it's not what I think it is.

 

[Victorious]

Marcia, I think he means "Cain." I HOPE he means Cain.

 

[asterisktom]

That is a scary, scary quote!

Do Calvinists believe this? I thought "God has no grandchildren."

I'm sure someone has said it here before but I will say it again: Not all Calvinists (with or without quotes) believe in all of the teachings of Calvin or the WCF. I certainly don't, though I would be called a Calvinist. I prefer Grace Christian, or believer in the doctrines of grace.

The quote of Calvin is from his Institute (an overall excellent book in most points) and is based in his erroneous adoption, IMO, of paedobaptism.

It irks me to see that many think of "Calvinists" as all getting their marching orders from a man or the Westminster Confession and not from Scripture (where I get mine). I read and respect Calvin, Luther, Owen, Gill, Spurgeon, Gill, MacArthur, etc but in each of these good men I hav seen deviation on some point or other.

 

[Robert Snow]

It seems to me your problem is a limited mindset to two positions man created, that being Calvinism or Armenians. Who ever said those are the only two possibilities? Sometimes it is good to think outside the box.

You are correct, but I use these terms in a general way. There is much latitude in exactly what people on both sides believe.

You may not be a Calvinist, but your belief system seems to line up much closer to the Calvinist viewpoint than the Armenian position.

The reason I pray, is that the Lord tells us to do so. I do not base prayer on which side of a theological argument I agree or disagree with. Maybe you should try that.

Good answer, except for the snide remark (you just can't help yourself can you), this is the same reason the other side prays also.

 

[Amy.G]

It irks me to see that many think of "Calvinists" as all getting their marching orders from a man or the Westminster Confession and not from Scripture (where I get mine). I read and respect Calvin, Luther, Owen, Gill, Spurgeon, Gill, MacArthur, etc but in each of these good men I hav seen deviation on some point or other.

Then people should drop the name of "Calvinist". There should be no system called "Calvinism". If one calls themselves a Calvinist, it is natural for others to think they follow the teachings of John Calvin.

I call myself a Christian. I follow the teachings of Christ.
What if I were to say that there are some teachings of Christ that I don't believe in......but you can still call me a Christian because for the most part I believe in Christ's teachings? That would be ridiculous wouldn't it? Yet that is exactly what many who call themselves Calvinists do.

One should never call themselves a Calvinist unless they believe in his teachings 100%.

One should never call themselves a Christian unless they believe in Christ's teachings 100%.

 

[David Michael Harris]

That makes sense.

 

[TomVols]

That's not what he said. He said that all children of believing parents will be "covenant" children. If you understand Covenant Theology (most Presbyterians believe this), then you would know that children being born in the "covenant" are not necessarily going to be saved, although the expectation of it is very high.

Indeed. Covenant theology (particularly in this manner) is misunderstood and misrepresented by most critical Baptists. Salvation (or for some, even the proclivity towards it) is not in view, but blessings under the covenant as being born to a family of believers. Some have variations of covenental grace as refleced in the WCF, et.al, but most Baptists are clueless.

One should never call themselves a Calvinist unless they believe in his teachings 100%.

One should never call themselves a Christian unless they believe in Christ's teachings 100%.

But the reality is people do do this, regardless of whether they should do this.

 

[asterisktom]

Then people should drop the name of "Calvinist". There should be no system called "Calvinism". If one calls themselves a Calvinist, it is natural for others to think they follow the teachings of John Calvin.

I call myself a Christian. I follow the teachings of Christ.
What if I were to say that there are some teachings of Christ that I don't believe in......but you can still call me a Christian because for the most part I believe in Christ's teachings? That would be ridiculous wouldn't it? Yet that is exactly what many who call themselves Calvinists do.

One should never call themselves a Calvinist unless they believe in his teachings 100%.

One should never call themselves a Christian unless they believe in Christ's teachings 100%.

You miss my point, but oh well.

 

[asterisktom]

One should never call themselves a Calvinist unless they believe in his teachings 100%.

One should never call themselves a Christian unless they believe in Christ's teachings 100%.

How about:
One should never call themselves a Baptist unless they believe in their teachings 100%.

But wait - there is no one unified Baptist teaching. So that is impossible.
Neither is there a unified Calvinist teaching.

Neither is there a unified Christian teaching. There is in the Bible, don't misunderstand me. But there isn't in our perception.

I can say also - as you did - that I just follow the Bible. It sounds good, but it actually says little. It only separates us from those who pointedly disavow the Bible.

 

[Robert Snow]

Commenting on this passage W. Bingham Hunter [The God Who Hears] writes:

“Paul’s experience highlights the simple but profound truth that prayer is not the means by which we get what we want, rather it is a means that God uses to give us what he wants.”

I don't know who Hunter is but I believe this is the best definition of prayer I have read.

Thank you OR for sharing this. This is a good definition.

 

[Amy.G]

How about:
One should never call themselves a Baptist unless they believe in their teachings 100%.

Ok.

But wait - there is no one unified Baptist teaching. So that is impossible.
Neither is there a unified Calvinist teaching.

Good reason for dropping the moniker.

Neither is there a unified Christian teaching. There is in the Bible, don't misunderstand me. But there isn't in our perception.

That's why we should always pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to give us the proper perception. But claiming the name of a man doesn't help in this matter.

I can say also - as you did - that I just follow the Bible. It sounds good, but it actually says little. It only separates us from those who pointedly disavow the Bible.

I didn't say I follow the Bible (though I do). I said I follow Christ. And I claim His name because of it.

 

[asterisktom]

That's why we should always pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to give us the proper perception. But claiming the name of a man doesn't help in this matter.

I don't claim the name Calvinist. Others put that label on me.

I didn't say I follow the Bible (though I do). I said I follow Christ. And I claim His name because of it.

As do I. My point is - besides that I don't call myself after a man - is that you shouldn't call yourself a Baptist (according to what you are writing), unless you believe Christ was a Baptist.

 

[Amy.G]

As do I. My point is - besides that I don't call myself after a man - is that you shouldn't call yourself a Baptist (according to what you are writing), unless you believe Christ was a Baptist.

When did I call myself a Baptist?