Let's just enjoy this moment for a bit.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If it's new it ain't true
- Thread starter Luke2427
- Start date
- Status
Let's just enjoy this moment for a bit.
:laugh: And the world didn't end!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. - John 16
Not trying to debate this point, because I agree with it in part. I don't believe the spirit would speak to us in a way that contrasts with scripture, but I do believe he can and does speak to us at times when we aren't reading the scriptures. And I believe he can and does prompt us to do things, speak to others etc.
Do you think John 16, quoted above, was unique to his apostles, or do you believe it applies still to us today?
I think what the Spirit does is illumine us concerning the Words of Christ.
I don't think he is saying new things, but guiding us through the Scriptures.
I think it is potentially dangerous to say, "God spoke to me yesterday and told me to do..."
He brings to our remembrance the things Christ has said in his Word. He can increase our hunger for the Word.
He clears our minds and opens our eyes so that we can understand it and study it properly.
But I do not think he is saying new words today- not to individuals or to movements, etc...
I knew we could do it when I saw the Saints win the Superbowl!
I believe if you knew me better and understood my motives, we'd agree a whole lot more.
You might not ever agree that I should say things the way I say them- but you might come to see that I really believe from my heart that I am supposed to do it that way, and you might say, "Hey. I wish Luke would take a chill pill, but he is only doing that because he thinks God's Word says that he should. It's not that he's just being hateful."
Probably so. But just remember that how you say something really does matter. When you pound people over the head, they rarely listen.
Moses was the first Calvinist I am aware of:thumbsup:He wrote the first five books, the teaching is there.:wavey:
seekingthetruth
New Member
That's apples and oranges.
He was the leader of the chosen nation. That has nothing to do with chosen individuals, especially gentiles.
John the cultist
Oh puuuleeeese!
Yes, God chooses people and nations for His specific purposes, but He offers salvation to everyone. Even Gentiles could convert and become part of Israel.
And thank you!!! AmyGOh puuuleeeese!
Yes, God chooses people and nations for His specific purposes, but He offers salvation to everyone. Even Gentiles could convert and become part of Israel.
Moses spoke of God as creator ,sustainer, redeemer and judge....He spoke of the fall and how death came to Adam,and us in adam,He spoke of the covenant promise of the seed that would come ,and those in Him.
Sounds like a calvinist to me.....Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord,
God hath appointed me another seed...
God chooses people,and nations, and individuals among the nations for salvation...Alot of Paul's teaching...[calvinism} is quoting Moses {rom}9
so Moses the first to write calvinism openly,before it has been systematized.:wavey::wavey:
Last edited by a moderator:
preacher4truth
Active Member
You're correct. And He wanted to know more about the God who judged some, showed grace and mercy to others, to which Moses was witness, yet still desired to know God in a greater way, while this same God said "...and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello cultist friend...:laugh: Moses wrote the first 5 books....he wrote about the godly line , the seed of the woman.....that is chosen individuals my friend,
oh yes...calvinism...he wrote of jacob and Esau.....
Paul learned from Moses: calvinism:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
You are so welcome! :1_grouphug:
But we ALL believe those things, not just Calvinists. :thumbsup:
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Luke, there is new and there is NEW.
Universalism is new.
Mormonism is NEW. What's the difference? Mormonism adds to scripture (you know the whole gold plated book of mourn-ah-Mormon).
Universalism has been bandied about probably as long as Calvinism. Both are interpretations that come from scripture itself.
C/A has been debated for centuries and will be debated until we are sitting in the clouds and God settles the argument once and for all.
New isn't the point. The point is: does it agree with scripture? Does the interpretation agree with generally held ideas of theology?
History isn't going to settle some of the arguments. It can be of some help, but most of what we argue about is just window dressing anyhow. C/A? It's not gonna change our destiny. We've already made the decision to follow Christ, however we came to it. Young earth/old earth/big bang. Same thing. Not gonna matter in the end.
What matters is what we do with Christ. What matters is that we preach Christ crucified and risen again. When we add or take away from that fact, then we are lost and the history of the idea, the length of time that idea has been around won't make it better. Wrong is wrong no matter how long it goes on.
Universalism is new.
Mormonism is NEW. What's the difference? Mormonism adds to scripture (you know the whole gold plated book of mourn-ah-Mormon).
Universalism has been bandied about probably as long as Calvinism. Both are interpretations that come from scripture itself.
C/A has been debated for centuries and will be debated until we are sitting in the clouds and God settles the argument once and for all.
New isn't the point. The point is: does it agree with scripture? Does the interpretation agree with generally held ideas of theology?
History isn't going to settle some of the arguments. It can be of some help, but most of what we argue about is just window dressing anyhow. C/A? It's not gonna change our destiny. We've already made the decision to follow Christ, however we came to it. Young earth/old earth/big bang. Same thing. Not gonna matter in the end.
What matters is what we do with Christ. What matters is that we preach Christ crucified and risen again. When we add or take away from that fact, then we are lost and the history of the idea, the length of time that idea has been around won't make it better. Wrong is wrong no matter how long it goes on.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Stray Dog
Exodus 19:4-6
4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[Or possession, for the whole earth is mine. You] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Exodus 22:
21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
Leviticus 19:34
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 10:19
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Assemble the people—men, women and children, and the foreigners residing in your towns—so they can listen and learn to fear the LORD your God and follow carefully all the words of this law.
Exodus 12:48 “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”
I praise God that He made a way for a non-elect stray dog like me. I can not lift myself that high that i deserve election apart from Christ who is my salvation, and I will praise all His work..
Exodus 19:4-6
4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[Or possession, for the whole earth is mine. You] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Exodus 22:
21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
Leviticus 19:34
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 10:19
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Assemble the people—men, women and children, and the foreigners residing in your towns—so they can listen and learn to fear the LORD your God and follow carefully all the words of this law.
Exodus 12:48 “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”
I praise God that He made a way for a non-elect stray dog like me. I can not lift myself that high that i deserve election apart from Christ who is my salvation, and I will praise all His work..
Last edited by a moderator:
seekingthetruth
New Member
Ok, then did ALL of the Jews go to heaven?
Wasn't the "chosen" the nation of isreal?
If the chosen were individauls then why did they have to obey so many laws to find favor with God to get into heaven?
It seems to me that the children of Isreal were given a choice to worship God or the golden calf. If they were "chosen" as individuals then how were they able to make the choice to worship the calf in the first place?
But mostly, tell me if the Jews were "Chosen" as individauls and not as a nation, then is every dead Jew now in heaven?
John (I have left the cult, thanks Brother Don)
Last edited by a moderator:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Actually universalism can be traced back to Origen, whereas Calvinism can only be traced back to Augustine.
seekingthetruth
New Member
Paganism is older than Christianity, but it's not true.
Although I did see the most evil bumper sticker I have ever seen in my life at the grocery store here in Maine. IT said "Paganism gave birth to Christainty"
I wanted to throw up.
But you have to understand that Maine is probably the most atheistic, liberal, pot smoking hippie state in the union. The few that do go to church are mostly RCC.
We need more missionaires here.
John
Although I did see the most evil bumper sticker I have ever seen in my life at the grocery store here in Maine. IT said "Paganism gave birth to Christainty"
I wanted to throw up.
But you have to understand that Maine is probably the most atheistic, liberal, pot smoking hippie state in the union. The few that do go to church are mostly RCC.
We need more missionaires here.
John
Yes.
EVERYBODY thinks they have scripture for what they beleive.
Saying I have Scripture for what I beleive is meaningless because all heretics say that.
Jim Jones believed he had Scripture for what he believed.
David Koresh was an AVID scripture reader and had an excellent ability to quote Scripture off the cuff.
If you've ever locked horns with a Mormon or JW you know they LOVE to read and memorize Scripture and they have thousands of Scriptures that they believe support their view points.
JW's are almost as good at prooftexting as WINMAN IS!!!!
So it is not JUST if you have Scripture for what you believe. That, by itself is about as meaningless as anything can be.
It is if you have Scripture rightly divided, properly interpreted via a sound hermeneutic- THAT'S what matters.
And if you do not use the Historic Christian Faith as an aid to help you rightly divide Scripture- you are probably going to become a heretic just like all cults who have the same flawed hermeneutic.
- Status