If Jesus Died On The Cross For You...

[righteousdude2]

You say tomatos ... I say tomatoes! They're both a fruit like vegtable!

Can you quote a scripture that says such a thing?

I cannot find any scripture that tells us to accept Him Now that is a real shame, isn't it?

I certainly cannot find any which say to accept Him into our heart Well you have to have a heart to have Him change that heart.

I especially cannot find any which say to accept Him into our life Well, I guess we both have a problem, James, because I Can't seem to ACCEPT you attempt to be nit picky

What are those supposed to mean, anyway? Sounds mystical, ambiguous, and a whole lot like self effort Yeah it does sound a little mystical, but not as cryptic as your imbecilic attempt to question what I have used for years to lead thousands to Him. Are you insinuating that if I don't use a certain INCANTATION or select hocus pocus, grouping of Baptist approved words, precisely said in accordance with your theology, that all those folks I led to Jesus will, in fact, go to hell? If that is your argument, James, then you are more of a presumptuous, anal-retentive kind of a guy!


But I recall many scriptures which say to believe upon Him for eternal life, and that those who believe upon Him have life. Funny, but, I guess that what you have written depends on which version of the Bible you are using.

James - if you want to play the little theological gotcha game of semantics, FINE, go ahead and play. You say tomato, I say tomatoe, and in the end they taste the same and have the same use.

You say whosoever believes, I say whosoever accepts or receives Him, and the only thing that matters to God, is the state of the heart of the person repenting and praying to be born-again.

Go play your word games with someone else. I have no time for your arrogant silliness! :smilewinkgrin:

http://www.openbible.info/topics/accepting_christ

 

[righteousdude2]

hey dude
God said it, that settles it. whether you believe it or not.

Hey Icon ... long time since I heard from you! Glad to see you still posting. I know we both post on different forums, which is why I never run into you. Hope all is well, and I continue to pray for your safety as you travel the roadways of America! :flower:

 

[JamesL]

James - if you want to play the little theological gotcha game of semantics, FINE, go ahead and play. You say tomato, I say tomatoe, and in the end they taste the same and have the same use.

You say whosoever believes, I say whosoever accepts or receives Him, and the only thing that matters to God, is the state of the heart of the person repenting and praying to be born-again.

Go play your word games with someone else. I have no time for your arrogant silliness! :smilewinkgrin:

http://www.openbible.info/topics/accepting_christ

You can get your panties in a bunch all you want, but the bottom line is that you made an assertion that the bible SAYS.....

So, if the bible says it, tell us where. And if the bible DOESN'T say what you claim, then you need to clean up what you say.


Believing in (or upon) Jesus is plainly stated in multiple dozens of scripture.

So where is this accepting Him into your life? What the he is that supposed to mean, anyway? It's very ambiguous, and can mean anything to anybody

And where is this accepting Him into your heart?


You're trying to palm off a mystical deception as biblical truth, and you got called in the carpet.

It's not an issue of tomatoes, it's an issue of truth. The nonsense you teach leads to destruction. And I hope that offends you to the point that you'll take an honest look at what you're saying.

 

[righteousdude2]

You can get your panties in a bunch all you want, but the bottom line is that you made an assertion that the bible SAYS.....

So, if the bible says it, tell us where. And if the bible DOESN'T say what you claim, then you need to clean up what you say.


Believing in (or upon) Jesus is plainly stated in multiple dozens of scripture.

So where is this accepting Him into your life? What the he is that supposed to mean, anyway? It's very ambiguous, and can mean anything to anybody

And where is this accepting Him into your heart?


You're trying to palm off a mystical deception as biblical truth, and you got called in the carpet.

It's not an issue of tomatoes, it's an issue of truth. The nonsense you teach leads to destruction. And I hope that offends you to the point that you'll take an honest look at what you're saying.

The only one who can call me on the carpet is God through the Holy Spirit, and that is because HIs is the only voice I listen to. Your words have no standing in my sight, For all I know, you may be an atheist, here on the board by false application? So, your view is your view. I note your opinion, but, feel it is worthless and void.

As I said to recieve him is the same as to accept him. Merely semantics on your nitpicking behalf. I have led many people to Jesus inviting folks to "accept" Him as Savior, to live in their heart and to rule his or her life. Are you trying to tell me, that God will not save those folks based on my words, or as you put it mystical deception? Because if that is what you are trying to assert, it is you who has given more credence to the doctrine of words, and not the remorse and willingness of a repentant sinner to ask Jesus into their heart and life!

It is not the words of invitation, or the words of our prayer that addresses and changes the condition of ones heart when the Holy Spirit convicts that sinful heart and urges them to come forward and make Jesus their Lord and Savior.

It is aparent that the condition of your heart is being guided by perfection of doctrine, and not according to the actual leading of the Holy Ghost? But if you want to go out on that spiritual limb and teell me that the thousands I have led to Jesus over my lifetime are in fact not saved, well, go ahead and say it!

As I said at the top of this comment, you may call me on the carpet all you want James .... but unfortunately it is not your authority that I recognize or move under. God is my judge, and the author of what words come from my mouth. And I choose to use the term "Accept Him" over "recieve Him" and that is acceptable according to the Thesaurus.

As to where He will spend eternity in a person's body, I believe repentance begins with the heart: Romans 10:9 ESV - "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

As for living in the heart of a person, read these different versions of Ephesians 3:17:

New International Version - "so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,"

New Living Translation - "Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God's love and keep you strong."

English Standard Version - "so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,"

New American Standard Bible - "so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,"

King James Bible - "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"

Pulpit Commentary: "Verse 17. - That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. Reversing the usual order, the prayer begins (ver. 16) by asking the blessing of the Third Person of the Godhead; now we have a cluster of petitions connected with the Second Person. The first of these is for the indwelling of Christ in their hearts, as opposed to mere occasional visits or influences from Christ; the instrument by which this blessing is attained being their faith. Christ exercising a constant power within them, both in the active and passive movements of the heart, giving the sense of pardon and acceptance, molding the will, sweetening the emotions, enlightening and confirming the conscience, purifying the whole springs and principles of action. This to be secured by their faith, opening the door, receiving Christ in all his fullness, resting and living on him, believing his promises, and longing for his appearing the second time. In order that ye, having been rooted and grounded in love. Two images are combined to make the idea emphatic - that of a tree and that of a building; denoting what is both the starting-point and the support of the Christian's life, viz. love. In what sense? The love of Christ is specified afterwards (ver. 19), but this may be as a pre-eminent branch of that manifold love which bears on the Christian life - the love of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; the love of the brethren to one another; and the reciprocal love evoked from the believer by the reception of this love. Evidently it is implied that the Christian life can begin and flourish only in such an atmosphere of love; as warm sunshine is needed to start and advance the life of a plant, so love is needed to start and carry on the life of the soul. Experience of Divine love is a great quickening and propelling power. "One glance of God, a touch of his love, will free and enlarge the heart, so that it can deny all and part with all and make an entire renunciation of all to follow him" (Archbishop Leighton).

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible: That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,.... This is another petition put up by the apostle for the Ephesians, which is for the inhabitation of Christ in them: the inhabitant Christ is he who dwells in the highest heavens, who dwells in the Father, and the Father in him, in whom all fulness dwells, the fulness of the Godhead, and the fulness of grace; so that those in whose hearts he dwells cannot want any good thing, must be in the greatest safety, and enjoy the greatest comfort and pleasure; and this inhabitation of Christ prayed for is not to be understood in such sense, as he dwells everywhere, being the omnipresent God; or as he dwells in the human nature; nor of his dwelling merely by his Spirit, but of a personal indwelling of his; and which is an instance of his special grace: he dwells in his people, as a king in his palace, to rule and protect them, and as a master in his family to provide for them, and as their life to quicken them; it is in consequence of their union to him, and is expressive of their communion with him, and is perpetual; where he once takes up his residence, he never totally and finally departs: the place where he dwells is not their heads, nor their tongues, but their hearts; and this is where no good thing dwells but himself and his grace; and where sin dwells, and where he is often slighted, opposed, and rebelled against: the means by which he dwells is faith; which is not the bond of union to Christ, nor the cause of his being and dwelling in the hearts of his people; but is the instrument or means by which they receive him, and retain him, and by which they have communion with him:

that ye being rooted and grounded in love; either in love to God, and one another; for faith and love go together; and love is sometimes weak, and needs establishing; and what serves to root and ground persons in it, are the discoveries of God's love, views of Christ's loveliness, the consideration of blessings received, and the communion they have with God, and Christ, and one another, and a larger insight into the doctrines of the Gospel: or rather in the love of God to them; which is the root and foundation of salvation; this is in itself immovable and immutable; but saints have not always the manifestations of it, and sometimes call it in question, and have need to be rooted and grounded in it; which is to have a lively sense of it, and to be persuaded of interest in it, and that nothing shall be able to separate from it.

In conclusion, James, or whoever you really are, read this link, if you dare: http://www.jesus.org/following-jesu...vation/can-jesus-really-live-in-my-heart.html

So place those panties back over your head and continue to peek out the leg size cutouts. They have brought you this far in life, and I'd hate to see you stop a good thing :laugh:

 

[percho]

...could you still die and go to hell?

Did Jesus die on the cross to give you a "chance" to go to heaven? Or did He die on the cross to "ensure" that you go to heaven?

Yes, Jesus died on that cross to serve as the sacrificial lamb for sin. My sin! Not "your sin" but "my sin". Yes, He died on the cross for "your sin" but that's between "you" and Him.

Once completed and the sin debt paid..., the Holy Spirit then began to convict men of their sinful condition(s) and their need for a savior. The door was opened. As the Lord knew from eon's past for whom He was going to call to the knowledge of His saving Grace..., and then accept them into His everlasting presence..., how could we possibly then even have a remote chance of ending up with eternal punishment?

Yes, we might backslide and turn our backs on the Lord and possibly end up dying in that condition..., but once our Lord has forgiven us of that original sinful condition and He wiped the slate clean..., how could we possibly undue that?

We are saved by His Grace. Then, He continues with us the result of His Grace! Accordingly, there is nothing we can do to "earn" any additional "favors" from Him. There is absolutely nothing we can do for Him. He will use us when it pleases Him.

So, if Jesus died on the cross that day for "me" could I still die and go to hell?

No way!

Yes Jesus died for your sin.

However was that enough, "to get you into heaven," I prefer, allow you to enter and or inherit the kingdom of God?

And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

What was necessary for the blood of Christ to wash away your sins?

Was regeneration, necessary for washing to take place?

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
But God raised him (Jesus the Christ) from the dead: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Has anyone, to date, born of woman, experienced the above other than Jesus of Nazareth, brought forth by the virgin Mary, conceived in her out of Spirit, the God? Jesus the Holy, and Just one.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Does one who has been baptized into Jesus, baptized into his death, still need to be born again, to enter and or inherit the kingdom of God?

Was his death enough? Is our death, in him, enough?

 

[HAMel]

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16-15

No, I haven't done a word study on Mark 16-15 but on the surface..., go and preach - or, go and tell the gospel to every creature seems to be quite clear.

Jesus died on the cross for "me" and at His appointed time I came to know Him. Not from a church service but in my home one evening thanks to a Missionary Baptist Preacher that lived across the street. A glorious day that was indeed!!!

I read this morning where Billy Graham just had another birthday. Over all the many years of his "preaching" his message was pure and simple. Come to know Jesus as your personal savior. End of subject.

Jesus died on that cross for me! Not for you..., but for me.

It would appear that most all of us need to focus more on this extremely and most vital aspect of the Christian walk while laying down and disposing of all the nonsense that we feel most important. Arguing over points of doctrine that really amount to nothing but vain babbling that leads to confusion and profits nothing.

Tell the story as was intended. Jesus died on that cross for "me". If you believe that then you can come to realize that Jesus died on that cross for "you".

Splintering the Bible into multiple belief's, as has happened for centuries..., have sent more people to eternal destruction than one can shake a stick at.

 

[HankD]

If Jesus Died On The Cross For You... ...could you still die and go to hell?...

In the particular "me" - No.
In the general "you" - Yes.

HankD

 

[HAMel]

In the particular "me" - No.
In the general "you" - Yes.

...and that's the sad part. In "general" so many folks get wrapped up in the pious side of "religion" they miss the basic tenant of Salvation. That's a shame.

 

[HankD]

In the particular "me" - No.
In the general "you" - Yes.

...and that's the sad part. In "general" so many folks get wrapped up in the pious side of "religion" they miss the basic tenant of Salvation. That's a shame.

Most ignore the call.
Or like Felix who told Paul he would be saved at a more "convenient" time.
Or Agrippa who was "almost" saved (which is to be entirely lost).

HankD

 

[righteousdude2]

In the particular "me" - No.
In the general "you" - Yes.

...and that's the sad part. In "general" so many folks get wrapped up in the pious side of "religion" they miss the basic tenant of Salvation. That's a shame.

Same as the argument .... will you accept or receive him into your heart/life. You have a valid point, brother, too many right here on the board are tangled up in the mental gymnastics of theology, and miss the whole thing ... a simple fact: Jesus died on the cross "for me." What I do with that truth will depend where I spend eternity.

From there I go out and share that simple soul saving fact, and what others do with that decides where they will spend eternity, too. Thanks for trying to share the simple truth, and not complicating it with whether we receive him or accept him. Whether we ask him into our heart, life or to sit shotgun in your sports car. All that matters is the message that he died for "me" and "you" and it is up to us to respond out of faith based on a repentant heart.

 

[HankD]

Same as the argument .... will you accept or receive him into your heart/life. You have a valid point, brother, too many right here on the board are tangled up in the mental gymnastics of theology, and miss the whole thing ... a simple fact: Jesus died on the cross "for me." What I do with that truth will depend where I spend eternity.

From there I go out and share that simple soul saving fact, and what others do with that decides where they will spend eternity, too. Thanks for trying to share the simple truth, and not complicating it with whether we receive him or accept him. Whether we ask him into our heart, life or to sit shotgun in your sports car. All that matters is the message that he died for "me" and "you" and it is up to us to respond out of faith based on a repentant heart.

Amen.

NKJV Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.



HankD

 

[Benjamin]

Amen.

NKJV Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.



HankD

Yeah, Hank but can the "simple fact" being voiced by Dude be maintained within "all" meaning all???

And is a message (Gospel) that He died for "you" a true message to others according to the scriptural definition of "all" (meaning of some) on this board?

I mean you got to know that this tread creates a side bar issue of exclusion of any payment (death on the cross) for "most", right?

 

[Benjamin]

IOWs Dude said: "All that matters is the message that he died for "me" and "you"..." to which you (Hank) said Amen.

How can a Calvinist deliver such a "message" (that Jesus died for YOU) with a straight face?!?

http://www.baptistsymposium.com/for...l-concepts/2974-false-hope-in-the-gospel-poll

 

[JamesL]

In the particular "me" - No.
In the general "you" - Yes.

...and that's the sad part. In "general" so many folks get wrapped up in the pious side of "religion" they miss the basic tenant of Salvation. That's a shame.

No, the real sad part is that so many folks get all wrapped up in a "response" doctrine, to the point that everything they're preaching is self effort.

Christ, and His cross, become a side note. The whole message is "if YOU do this, or if YOU do that, then you can have eternal life"

It turns the gospel upside down, right into heresy.

And many genuine believers are preaching this self effort drivel, and deceiving millions. Why are there so many half-hearted "believers" in the church?

Because many aren't believers at all. Their faith is securely planted in what they're doing, not what Christ has done for us.


That's the funny thing about truth. You can get as technical as you want, and truth doesn't faint. Truth stands up to serious inquiry and scrutiny. And all the technicalities in the world do nothing to dent the armor of truth.

But as soon as you hear somebody start dismissing scrutiny over supposed "semantics", you know you've got error on your hands

 

[HankD]

Yeah, Hank but can the "simple fact" being voiced by Dude be maintained within "all" meaning all???

And is a message (Gospel) that He died for "you" a true message to others according to the scriptural definition of "all" (meaning of some) on this board?

I mean you got to know that this tread creates a side bar issue of exclusion of any payment (death on the cross) for "most", right?

If I am a calvinist (and I claim that I am not) then its what is called a Christmas calvinist ( No "L" - get it - Noel).

No "L" No Limited Atonement.

I know the objection that this would be that Christ died in vain for the non-elect.

But that is human reasoning. We don't know all the details of the mechanics of salvation and the scripture plainly proclaims this -

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So yes, I can tell someone that "Christ died for your sins".

Whether they believe it or not, well that's another story.
My job is to tell others.

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

If I am a calvinist (and I claim that I am not) then its what is called a Christmas calvinist ( No "L" - get it - Noel).

No "L" No Limited Atonement.

I know the objection that this would be that Christ died in vain for the non-elect.

But that is human reasoning. We don't know all the details of the mechanics of salvation and the scripture plainly proclaims this -

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So yes, I can tell someone that "Christ died for your sins".

Whether they believe it or not, well that's another story.
My job is to tell others.

HankD

Eph 1:11 does not support your false idea. That is spoken to elect believers who have obtained an inheritance.

Christ died to save sinners. He did not die for every sinner or every sinner would be saved. You cannot say Christ died for you in particular and know it.
If that person perishes it cannot be that his sins were paid for.

 

[Iconoclast]

IOWs Dude said: "All that matters is the message that he died for "me" and "you"..." to which you (Hank) said Amen.

How can a Calvinist deliver such a "message" (that Jesus died for YOU) with a straight face?!?

http://www.baptistsymposium.com/for...l-concepts/2974-false-hope-in-the-gospel-poll

Of course no Calvinist would say that. We would proclaim the biblical message that Jesus came to save sinners. Everyone believing will be saved.

I can only know what the scripture says. The Apostles never said anywhere in Acts....Jesus died for you in particular....it is found nowhere in scripture.

How have you been Benjamin?

 

[righteousdude2]

Eph 1:11 does not support your false idea. That is spoken to elect believers who have obtained an inheritance.

Christ died to save sinners. He did not die for every sinner or every sinner would be saved. You cannot say Christ died for you in particular and know it.
If that person perishes it cannot be that his sins were paid for.

The circus sideshow that some of you "elect" have tried to implement as God's will is not necessarily the fact. Jesus died for everyone; anyone; and all who realize that they have sinned, and that the only atonement for that sin is the blood Christ shed on the cross.

No one on this board can tell me that they KNOW who is going to be truly saved and who is going to hell! The entire reason for the life of Jesus was wrapped up neatly in John 3:16. Just to appease ALL of you who dispute that Jesus died for everyone, here are numerous versions of John 3:16, and nowhere do I read or see that Jesus "died for the elect!" The family of God is not some exclusive country club folks? The only criterion that are required to be born-again into the family of God is that by faith, we believe.

New International Version - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

New Living Translation - "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

English Standard Version - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

New American Standard Bible - "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

King James Bible - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Holman Christian Standard Bible - "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

International Standard Version - "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life."

I firmly believe that God, and only God, can possibly know the heart of the "whosoever" or the "everyone's" that come to Him in faith and ask Jesus to save them; fill them with His Spirit; and turn his or her life in a new direction! A direction that takes them off the wide road to hell, and places them on the Narrow Path, which leads to the Narrow Gate, which ultimately gives the whosoever and everyone's the right to enter eternity!

For any of you to presume that there is an elect group that goes to heaven is playing God! No one on this board can tell me that they personally know who will and who will not enter eternity? I realize that some of you hold to an elect group, predestined to be saved ... but the awesome part of this truth is, none of us know just who is on that list! Which is why we are told to go an preach the Goodnews, making disciples of men (and this is my own little addition), women and children!

I have never turned anyone away from the alter because I didn't believe they were part of the S-elect. It is my job to preach the Gospel. It is the Holy Spirits job to convict a sinners heart. It is my job to pray with them and lead them to Jesus. It is the work of Jesus on the cross to save them, and write their name in the Lamb's Book of Life! It is than job of the Holy Ghost to teach, convict, grow and change the heart of the saved, bringing them closer to the Father on a daily basis through the process of Sanctification working within their flesh, molding their spirit to be more and more like Him, who one day that person will share eternity with the Father and others. Life as a born-again believer can be viewed as a form of on-the-job-training! And only God can set us in motrion toward the growth we will experience here on earth, as we are prepared to be joined to the Son as His bride.

 

[Van]

I see we have yet another stealth Calvinist thread, not posted in the correct forum. We have gone four pages and no moderator has moved it.

1) Calvinist chestnut - if Christ died for the lost, then He died in vain.
But that assertion is false. Christ "bought" even false teachers. Thus providing the opportunity for all men to be saved.

2) Christ is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all of fallen mankind. If God credits your faith as righteousness, and transfers you from the realm of darkness into the Kingdom of His Son, you "receive" the reconciliation provided by His death on the cross.

3) The OP simply puts forth the mistaken doctrine of Calvinism without mentioning Calvinism.

 

[HankD]

Eph 1:11 does not support your false idea. That is spoken to elect believers who have obtained an inheritance.

Christ died to save sinners. He did not die for every sinner or every sinner would be saved. You cannot say Christ died for you in particular and know it.
If that person perishes it cannot be that his sins were paid for.

So say you. ALL belong to the LORD.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John defines the "whole world" in later verses:

NIV 1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

There are only two classes of people here : the children of God and NOT the children of God.

His blood is the propitiation for everyone's sins including the "NOT the children of God", we, they, are His to do with whatever He pleases and consign us to whatever eternity He chooses. We are all His by virtue of His blood sacrifice.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

And He didn't have to get permission from calvin or arminius.

Of ALL mankind of which He purchased and died for their sins some will be separated from Him forever, some will be in His presence forever. He bought us all to do "whatever hath pleased him"

So I repeat to all who will listen "Christ died for your sins".

HankD