I think we all agree with you, but the question was would you accept the beads?
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If someone gave you...
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
I think we all agree with you, but the question was would you accept the beads?
preacher4truth
Active Member
Believe it or not, I would graciously decline, and this would be a perfect time to preach the Gospel to them.
Believe it or not, I would graciously decline, and this would be a perfect time to preach the Gospel to them.
How can you preach something like the Gospel when in fact you preach a different Gospel than as it was intended ?
Also, i am answering to a closed post being that posts are only closed unfairly [ just my opinion ] you Baptists will probably ban me for writing that. You Baptists should really go over and debate your 30 different kinds of interpretation with the real Christians on the Catholic Forums. I mean, don't you guys get tired of arguing about which one of your Baptists groups contain the correct interpretation of Scripture ?
Back to the closed post. my answer to it would be this; The reason St. Peter isn't mentioned as being in Rome [ but he is in other sources ] is that Christians in large all had a "price on their heads ' and St. Peter' s Bishop of Rome's head carried the highest price. Roman soldiers only were looking for the "new religious fanatics "that proclaimed Jesus of Nazareth as their King not Caesar and this is why the Roman soldiers only placed a reward on the heads of 'those that consumed [ ancient word interpreted as "gnawed ''] their God. "because they were the only Christians that rejected Caesar as 'king' and accepted Jesus as King.So it would only make sense that Christians tried to keep a low profile for their bishop.No writing letters etc.
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NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I would accept their kindness with a disclaimer that I do not prayer to Mary or a set prayer, but would be using them to remind me I had a caring friend.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
We are just going to get into a muddle if you (or I, or anyone - I am not getting at you, Lakeside!
) use a different existing thread to reply to a thread which (for whatever reason) has been closed. Better, surely, to start a new thread with a title different to the closed thread. "Peter - in Rome or not?" for instance.preacher4truth
Active Member
However you got all of that out of what I said shows you have some deep seated anger issues. Nowhere did I mention the Gospel, I simply and kindly would decline the acceptance of RCC idolatrous practices. Praying to Mary? Unbiblical. Praying to the Saints? Unbiblical. In fact, it makes your entire system an idolatrous and false system, and is in fact not representative of true Christianity.
As to your belligerency against me for no apparent reason, in answer, I preach the Gospel. No need for your accusations which are baseless and completely unfounded drivel.
I'll say without any reservation that the RCC preaches a false Gospel.
One other thing my friend, not only would I preach the Gospel to them, or you, I will also preach it to those within church, within your system, and I won't stop preaching the Gospel to them, nor to you. I find it interesting that you're offended to have the Gospel preached to you (or implied to you and your RCC).
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First of all, i apologize if you misunderstood me, secondly , i have the Gospel taught to me at every Mass , in fact Catholics have the entire Bible read to them in an every three year period if they attend Mass regularly. And please it isn't RCC , that is a redundant title, how can it be just "Roman " when the word Catholic means universal [ from a Greek word ] It was your Protestant King Henry that coined the Universal Church as "Roman".
preacher4truth
Active Member
Please note for truthful and genuine apologies there are no "buts" or "I apologize, you misunderstood me." Nor is an apology true when it has a disclaimer that continues to blame the other party involved in any manner. "I apologize, but it's your fault?" That is not an apology.
What I have stated concerning the RCC, CC, or whatever other moniker it may go by stands. The practices within this system are idolatrous. Prayers to Saints and to Mary are in fact unbiblical and idolatrous. Also, simply reading the Scriptures is not preaching the Gospel.
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Show me one Catholic doctrine that supports praying to saints and Christ's mother Mary, please show me that Catholic Church doctrine?? Catholics pray only to the Father, the Son and to the Holy Spirit, understand. Never mind what some people who may call themselves Catholic or what your anti-catholic web-sites say . If you want to a critic of God's earthly Church learn to understand what it really" Teaches" and not from other anti-catholics and anti-catholic sources.
Is the Pope a good example in your opinion of Catholic doctrine and practice? Whom did Pope John Paul address and cry out to when he was shot? The Father? The Son? The Holy Spirit? - No! He addressed and cried out to "Mary" in prayer.
Exactly, no different than the wounded warrior that calls out for his mother , does that make anybody pagan ?
A. Lakside -
So, we show him the highest example in the Catholic Church were the Pope prayed to Mary and how does he respond
B. Lakeside -
So which Lakeside do we beleive? Lakeside A who asserts that Catholics ONLY pray to the Father, The Son and to the Holy Spirit OR Lakeside B who admits that the highest most revered example for all Catholics prays directly to Mary without one word addressed to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
So, we show him the highest example in the Catholic Church were the Pope prayed to Mary and how does he respond
B. Lakeside -
So which Lakeside do we beleive? Lakeside A who asserts that Catholics ONLY pray to the Father, The Son and to the Holy Spirit OR Lakeside B who admits that the highest most revered example for all Catholics prays directly to Mary without one word addressed to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
preacher4truth
Active Member
Oh please. Look at the many rosary prayers to Mary herself. It is a well known fact concerning prayers to Saints. It is a well known fact concerning the many relics of saints you all have and use and worship and adore. What does the Bible say about these things? Quit pretending, your system is idolatrous and this is a well known fact.
I am also aware that you all pretend not to pray TO Mary, but to ask her to pray for you. This is double-talk error. There is no way to ASK her to pray for you without praying to her in the first place. Prayer is asking. Get a grip.
Heres some CCC evidence and proof that you desired (as if you are oblivious, which is simply you being disengenuous) and there is plenty more:
Most systems as you are in deny the very things they practice and teach. This is deception, and is self-deception. Many systems that are not Biblical do these things so they appear to be "Christian." The only thing you have is practiced semantics to deceive others and yourself in trying to explain away the fact that you do pray to saints and to Mary, and it is in fact taught and practiced.
By the way, I don't have any anti-catholic websites. If there are some, good, they're exposing your errors as they should.
I know what your system teaches having grown up in a very catholic town, and having many catholic family members, who in fact pray to Mary, are taught by their local meeting place to pray to her and to other saints. These prayers to them are even written out and worded as prayers to them. It's utter error and is in fact idolatrous.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
He's being deceived, and deceiving others. Not here though. Like most false systems, they deny what they in fact do, and when facts are brought out to show them they do in fact practice which they deny, they have an excuse to justify idolatry.
Preacher,no one prays to dead saints, because those in heaven are more alive than we are. The Lord is God of the living, not of the dead. The fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful (Jas 5:16). Those in heaven are surely righteous, since nothing unclean can enter heaven (Rv 21:27). Those in heaven are part of the Mystical Body of Christ and have not been separated from us by death, but surround us as a great cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1). They stand before the throne of God and offer our prayers to him (Rv 5:8) and cheer us on as we run the good race. Intercession among members of the body of Christ is pleasing to God (1 Tm 2:1-4) and even commanded by him (Jn 15:17). Those in heaven have a perfected love, so how could they not intercede for us? Christ is the vine, and we are the branches; if we are connected to him, we are inseparably bound together as well. Can the eye say to the hand, "I need you not"? Neither are we to say we don’t need the prayers of our brothers and sisters (alive here or in heaven), because salvation is a family affair.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Nonsense, the catholic system and her members most certainly do and are in fact taught to pray to Mary and do pray to saints. When you own up to this, and quit denying what you know is fact, then we can talk. You also pray to angels.
Here's evidence to what you deny:
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/thirtydayjoseph.htm
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Early in Israelite history the Jews were forbidden to make pictures of God because he had not revealed himself to them in visible form. Had the Israelites made images of God, they might have been tempted to worship them, much as the pagans around them worshiped images. God later revealed himself under visible forms. One instance is found in Daniel 7:9-10: "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire."
The Holy Spirit revealed himself under two visible forms--that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Mt 3:16, Mk 1:10, Lk 3:22, Jn 1:32) and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4).
Most notably, God the Son visibly revealed himself in the Incarnation: "[A]nd going into the house they [the magi] saw the child with Mary his mother" (Mt 2:11).
Since God has revealed himself in the above forms, he can now be depicted under these forms. Keep in mind that Protestants have pictures of Jesus in Bible story books, that they depict the Holy Spirit as a dove, and that they depict the Father as an old man sitting on a throne. They do all these without the least temptation to worship these images as God.
The Holy Spirit revealed himself under two visible forms--that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Mt 3:16, Mk 1:10, Lk 3:22, Jn 1:32) and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4).
Most notably, God the Son visibly revealed himself in the Incarnation: "[A]nd going into the house they [the magi] saw the child with Mary his mother" (Mt 2:11).
Since God has revealed himself in the above forms, he can now be depicted under these forms. Keep in mind that Protestants have pictures of Jesus in Bible story books, that they depict the Holy Spirit as a dove, and that they depict the Father as an old man sitting on a throne. They do all these without the least temptation to worship these images as God.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Nonsense. You're adding to the Word. You're in error.
I've given you ample evidence and proof of your errors, I've gone beyond the mandate of Scriptures in my attempt to admonish you.
You are not denying what you are being charged with but defending it! So why not simply be honest and say Catholics do pray to Mary, departed saints, bow down before images and pray, symbolize their prayers before pictures on a wall, etc.
You are defending it so why not simply admit it?
Here is a true story about the rosary and the Battle of Lepanto.
The year was 1571 and the Ottoman Turks, under the leadership of Ali Pasha, had assembled a fleet of 286 ships at his base in Greece. His objective was to invade Italy and ultimately take the rest of the European continent in the name of Allah.
Recognizing the imminent danger, Pope Pius V called upon the Christian princes of Europe to rally in a great league of defense, a new crusade to beat back the invincible navy that threatened to overrun the continent. The king of Spain, the princes and nobles of Italy, and several other monarchs responded and hastily assembled a fleet under commanders of many tongues and nations. Altogether the Christians had 212 ships under the supreme command of Don Juan of Austria, age 25.
The Turks had one language, one commander and one mission. Already skilled in conquest, they outnumbered the Christian forces. There was no way that the Christian fleet looked equal to the challenge. No way on earth.
But Pius V wasn’t depending on earthly help alone. He was a Dominican, devoted to Our Lady, and he called upon the rosary confraternities of Rome and all over Europe to undertake special processions and public recitations of the rosary to ask for the prayers of the Blessed Mother.
On October 7, 1571, the Christian fleet met the invading Turks off the west coast of Greece in the Gulf of Lepanto. As Christians all over Europe prayed the rosary, the Turks surrounded the Christian ships. But the European fleet broke through. At the end of the day, Ali Pasha’s head was mounted atop the mast of one of the Christian ships and almost all of the Turks were driven to shore or drowned. Europe was saved, and Pope Pius ordered an annual commemoration in honor of “Our Lady of Victory.” His successor, Gregory XIII, set aside the first Sunday in October as the feast of the Holy Rosary. From that time on, the rosary prayer has been encouraged by the Catholic Church.
As an historical footnote, Lepanto was the last major battle between galley ships powered by oars.
The year was 1571 and the Ottoman Turks, under the leadership of Ali Pasha, had assembled a fleet of 286 ships at his base in Greece. His objective was to invade Italy and ultimately take the rest of the European continent in the name of Allah.
Recognizing the imminent danger, Pope Pius V called upon the Christian princes of Europe to rally in a great league of defense, a new crusade to beat back the invincible navy that threatened to overrun the continent. The king of Spain, the princes and nobles of Italy, and several other monarchs responded and hastily assembled a fleet under commanders of many tongues and nations. Altogether the Christians had 212 ships under the supreme command of Don Juan of Austria, age 25.
The Turks had one language, one commander and one mission. Already skilled in conquest, they outnumbered the Christian forces. There was no way that the Christian fleet looked equal to the challenge. No way on earth.
But Pius V wasn’t depending on earthly help alone. He was a Dominican, devoted to Our Lady, and he called upon the rosary confraternities of Rome and all over Europe to undertake special processions and public recitations of the rosary to ask for the prayers of the Blessed Mother.
On October 7, 1571, the Christian fleet met the invading Turks off the west coast of Greece in the Gulf of Lepanto. As Christians all over Europe prayed the rosary, the Turks surrounded the Christian ships. But the European fleet broke through. At the end of the day, Ali Pasha’s head was mounted atop the mast of one of the Christian ships and almost all of the Turks were driven to shore or drowned. Europe was saved, and Pope Pius ordered an annual commemoration in honor of “Our Lady of Victory.” His successor, Gregory XIII, set aside the first Sunday in October as the feast of the Holy Rosary. From that time on, the rosary prayer has been encouraged by the Catholic Church.
As an historical footnote, Lepanto was the last major battle between galley ships powered by oars.