If someone gave you...

[The Biblicist]

Here is a true story about the rosary and the Battle of Lepanto.

The year was 1571 and the Ottoman Turks, under the leadership of Ali Pasha, had assembled a fleet of 286 ships at his base in Greece. His objective was to invade Italy and ultimately take the rest of the European continent in the name of Allah.

Recognizing the imminent danger, Pope Pius V called upon the Christian princes of Europe to rally in a great league of defense, a new crusade to beat back the invincible navy that threatened to overrun the continent. The king of Spain, the princes and nobles of Italy, and several other monarchs responded and hastily assembled a fleet under commanders of many tongues and nations. Altogether the Christians had 212 ships under the supreme command of Don Juan of Austria, age 25.

The Turks had one language, one commander and one mission. Already skilled in conquest, they outnumbered the Christian forces. There was no way that the Christian fleet looked equal to the challenge. No way on earth.

But Pius V wasn’t depending on earthly help alone. He was a Dominican, devoted to Our Lady, and he called upon the rosary confraternities of Rome and all over Europe to undertake special processions and public recitations of the rosary to ask for the prayers of the Blessed Mother.

On October 7, 1571, the Christian fleet met the invading Turks off the west coast of Greece in the Gulf of Lepanto. As Christians all over Europe prayed the rosary, the Turks surrounded the Christian ships. But the European fleet broke through. At the end of the day, Ali Pasha’s head was mounted atop the mast of one of the Christian ships and almost all of the Turks were driven to shore or drowned. Europe was saved, and Pope Pius ordered an annual commemoration in honor of “Our Lady of Victory.” His successor, Gregory XIII, set aside the first Sunday in October as the feast of the Holy Rosary. From that time on, the rosary prayer has been encouraged by the Catholic Church.

As an historical footnote, Lepanto was the last major battle between galley ships powered by oars.

Do you realize how many such stories could be told about those who prayed and never used a rosary????? Do you realize how many personal crises could be told about those who prayed and never belonged to the Catholic Church?????

What about the battles the crusaders lost when all Catholics were praying?????

 

[mcdirector]

Snip

If someone were to give me one with the expectation that I would use them as prayer beads, I would graciously accept with the explanation that I do not pray to Mary nor would be using the beads for anything other than jewelry.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. In addition, it may well open up an opportunity for me to share my testimony. This past year has been a difficult one for my family. Due to some publicity, a few people have ignored us and some others have been less than kind (even though most of our friends and acquaintances have been extremely gracious). I cannot imagine not accepting this gift that was heartfelt.

 

[mcdirector]

I would accept their kindness with a disclaimer that I do not prayer to Mary or a set prayer, but would be using them to remind me I had a caring friend.

exactly!

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[The Biblicist]

exactly!

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Yeah, I think that is the most tactful and kindest thing you could do that would still leave an open door to share the gospel with them as time and circumcstances permit.

 

[DiamondLady]

If you were going thur a difficult period and a RC gave you a set of rosary beads to get you though that rough period - would you accept them or what?

Assuming this is a close acquaintance of mine, as I probably wouldn't from a complete stranger, I would accept them as a gift of friendship. My friends know I am not Catholic and know that I do not pray to Mary, but I would understand they are offering them in the spirit of friendship and comfort...they are sharing with me something that brings them comfort. I would appreciate the gesture and use it as an opportunity to share how I work through difficult times in my life.

 

[Salty]

Assuming this is a close acquaintance of mine, as I probably wouldn't from a complete stranger, ...QUOTE]

DL brings up a interesting point- would it make a difference if it was a close friend or a stranger?

 

[Melanie]

As an RC I would not give a non RC a rosary. It is not just a string of beads and to do so would be utterly pointless. I know some people wear them as part of a fashion. My mother (a Lutheran) would be very uncomfortable in accepting them.

If you were going through a tough time you WOULD be included in my prayers.

As stated by others, I would thank the person for the gesture, but ask them to keep the gift.

 

[go2church]

How about just accepting a thoughtful gift, is that even possible? While at the hospital with a sick family member, another family gave us a bottle of holy water. Not our tradition but it was gift of concern and kindness from a family who sympathized and empathized with our situation. "Thank you and may God bless you"

 

[steaver]

How about just accepting a thoughtful gift, is that even possible? While at the hospital with a sick family member, another family gave us a bottle of holy water. Not our tradition but it was gift of concern and kindness from a family who sympathized and empathized with our situation. "Thank you and may God bless you"

Well, WWJD?

Would Jesus queitly accept the beads as thoughtful? Or would Jesus take the opportunity to teach the truth?

 

[steaver]

Jesus would probably say something like this;

Except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

The most important issue is eternal life or condemnation. shall we let our friends continue in death for fear of offending them?

 

[steaver]

Now it could be that it is out of ignorance your friend believes in prayers to Mary. You then must guide them into the truth and liberate them from this false doctrine. But what of those who are shown the truth yet reject the truth and continue on practicing idolatry? You might lose that friend, but far worse is the lost of their own soul. We must try our best to bring them to Christ. Ye must be born again!

 

[go2church]

Well, WWJD?

Would Jesus queitly accept the beads as thoughtful? Or would Jesus take the opportunity to teach the truth?

I don't know and neither do you. It is interesting to note that after healing people Jesus told the now healed individuals to go and present themselves at the Temple to people trying to kill him, who would be referred to as whitewashed tombs, etc....

Why didn't Jesus take the additional time to "teach the truth", did he not care about the truth, shouldn't he have warned these folks about the errors they would encounter at the Temple?

 

[Walter]

Now it could be that it is out of ignorance your friend believes in prayers to Mary. You then must guide them into the truth and liberate them from this false doctrine. But what of those who are shown the truth yet reject the truth and continue on practicing idolatry? You might lose that friend, but far worse is the lost of their own soul. We must try our best to bring them to Christ. Ye must be born again!

You assume that believing that Mary intercedes for Christians is 'out of ignorance'. I spent most of my undergraduate years at Biola University and had opportunity to take several classes from an Orthodox prof who taught there for a time. I came to the conclusion that she (Mary) and the other saints in heaven intercede for those Christians on earth based on study of scripture and the writings of the Early Church and taking the time to visit Catholic apologetics sites, books and study of the Catechism. The idea that Catholics are all just a bunch of ignorant 'sheepal' is far from the truth.

 

[steaver]

You assume that believing that Mary intercedes for Christians is 'out of ignorance'. I spent most of my undergraduate years at Biola University and had opportunity to take several classes from an Orthodox prof who taught there for a time. I came to the conclusion that she (Mary) and the other saints in heaven intercede for those Christians on earth based on study of scripture and the writings of the Early Church and taking the time to visit Catholic apologetics sites, books and study of the Catechism. The idea that Catholics are all just a bunch of ignorant 'sheepal' is far from the truth.

The Apostle Paul was well educated in the Jews religion and he rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ before his conversion. He himself said that he did this out of ignorance even though at the time he was convinced that the Jews religion was accurately teaching the scriptures concerning Christ. Could it be that these Catholics whom are convinced that the RCC has taught the scriptures correctly for all these centuries is just flat out wrong and will be found as Paul, in ignorance? Just a thought, Paul thought he had the scriptures dead on as did all the fathers before him as they taught it.

 

[steaver]

I don't know and neither do you.

I have a pretty good idea how Jesus would respond by the examples given of Him in the scriptures, as well as the Apostles responses to idolatry when they came up against it. We are told to follow the Apostle's example as well as Christ's.

 

[Walter]

The Apostle Paul was well educated in the Jews religion and he rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ before his conversion. He himself said that he did this out of ignorance even though at the time he was convinced that the Jews religion was accurately teaching the scriptures concerning Christ. Could it be that these Catholics whom are convinced that the RCC has taught the scriptures correctly for all these centuries is just flat out wrong and will be found as Paul, in ignorance? Just a thought, Paul thought he had the scriptures dead on as did all the fathers before him as they taught it.

You have a point. I want to point out though that it appears that the biggest objection people have to rosary's on this thread is Mary's intercession. Rosary's are used as tools for other forms of prayer. I use mine each day at noon in the devotion of 'Divine Mercy'. The rosary is primarily used as a meditation on the life of Christ and is sometimes used when time does not allow for praying the office of Morning and Evening Prayer.

 

[steaver]

You have a point. I want to point out though that it appears that the biggest objection people have to rosary's on this thread is Mary's intercession. Rosary's are used as tools for other forms of prayer. I use mine each day at noon in the devotion of 'Divine Mercy'. The rosary is primarily used as a meditation on the life of Christ and is sometimes used when time does not allow for praying the office of Morning and Evening Prayer.

That's true, but from what i'm hearing here is that the rosary is taught by catholics to be used with specific prayers and many of them to Mary. Is this true, or is it used for any prayers you want to God?

 

[Walter]

That's true, but from what i'm hearing here is that the rosary is taught by catholics to be used with specific prayers and many of them to Mary. Is this true, or is it used for any prayers you want to God?

The 'hail Mary' is definately the most common prayer associated with the rosary. It's a simple request for Mary's intercession. However, a rosary can be used for any form of prayer to God. No Catholic is obliged to use a rosary if they don't want to. I first used mine for what many refer to as 'The Jesus Prayer' which is: “Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner”. When I was taught to pray this prayer it was explained to me "There is only one prerequisite, one presupposition: that you are a Christian. If you have faith in Christ, hope in Christ, and love of Christ, you can pray the most powerful prayer in the world, because you have real contact with the greatest power in the universe: Christ himself, who assured us, in his last words to his apostles, that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” (Mt 28:18).

I understand there is an Anglican Rosary. In fact, I found scads of them listed on Ebay. I read that it is most often used with 'The Jesus Prayer'. Maybe Matt Black or some other Anglican can comment further on that.

Besides Anglicans and Catholics, the Orthodox use 'rosaries' or prayer beads. Also, I found that a Lutheran monastery in Michigan has started using them in personal devotions.

http://www.staugustineshouse.org/

Also, I read a book by J. Nevile Ward, a Methodist pastor: 'Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy: Meditations on the Rosary'. In it he explains that the rosary as a form of prayer: "creates a rhythm that helps wean us from our distractions and focus our attention so that we can more readily move into God's presence."

 

[steaver]

The 'hail Mary' is definately the most common prayer associated with the rosary. It's a simple request for Mary's intercession. However, a rosary can be used for any form of prayer to God. No Catholic is obliged to use a rosary if they don't want to. I first used mine for what many refer to as 'The Jesus Prayer' which is: “Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner”. When I was taught to pray this prayer it was explained to me "There is only one prerequisite, one presupposition: that you are a Christian. If you have faith in Christ, hope in Christ, and love of Christ, you can pray the most powerful prayer in the world, because you have real contact with the greatest power in the universe: Christ himself, who assured us, in his last words to his apostles, that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” (Mt 28:18).

I understand there is an Anglican Rosary. In fact, I found scads of them listed on Ebay. I read that it is most often used with 'The Jesus Prayer'. Maybe Matt Black or some other Anglican can comment further on that.

Besides Anglicans and Catholics, the Orthodox use 'rosaries' or prayer beads. Also, I found that a Lutheran monastery in Michigan has started using them in personal devotions.

http://www.staugustineshouse.org/

Also, I read a book by J. Nevile Ward, a Methodist pastor: 'Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy: Meditations on the Rosary'. In it he explains that the rosary as a form of prayer: "creates a rhythm that helps wean us from our distractions and focus our attention so that we can more readily move into God's presence."

Well, idk Walter. I have never been involved in a catholic church, but it seems that catholics place Mary equal with Christ. I can't imagine praying to Mary or any other saint when I can pray directly to God as a saint myself.

 

[Walter]

Well, idk Walter. I have never been involved in a catholic church, but it seems that catholics place Mary equal with Christ. I can't imagine praying to Mary or any other saint when I can pray directly to God as a saint myself.

Any Catholic that places Mary as equal to Christ is going against Church teaching and is commiting a grave sin. Correct me if I am wrong but I suspect to you it SEEMS that the Catholic Church (and Orthodox Church) place Mary as being equal to Christ because you believe that asking them for intercession is idolatry and worship. I used to as well. Through study and prayer I now understand that I can go directly to God and I can also ask my brother and sisters in Christ both on earth and those who have gone to be with the Lord to pray for me. Intercession is not worship.