if the pope dies

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

So the question then is: who or what is the woman?

Revelation 17:18 The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth.

No doubt, you will have us believe that this great city is the Vatican.

Revelation 17:9 Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits.

So the great city sits upon seven hills.

So much for the Vatican as suspect. It does not sit upon seven hills.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
So the great city sits upon seven hills.

So much for the Vatican as suspect. It does not sit upon seven hills.

Rome is known as the city upon seven hills. The Catholic Church proudly refers to itself as the "Roman Catholic Church."

Really, I believe there is a poster here that has as their signature "Rome has spoken, it is settled" or something to that affect. One can hardly separate Rome from the Catholic Church.

The woman is also drunk with the blood of the saints. The Catholic Church wears that blood on her hands already. And, no, the fact that others have blood on their hands does not negate this verse. The woman is drunk with their blood.

She has commited adultery with the kings of the earth. Even today, your church has alliances with governments, such as the ones in the past it held with Hitler and Mussolini.

~Lorelei

 

[thessalonian]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Grace alone is what saves.

AMEN! Faith is the vehicle, but grace is what saves!

In Christ,
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]Even faith is grace. For Jesus tells Peter that it was his father in heaven that gave Peter the grace to declare that he (Jesus) was the son of the living God! All is grace. I was interested in someone dealing with that verse about hope that I quoted above in the context of once saved always saved. Perhaps that's another thread. Round and Round we go. Who is right, no Protestant knows.

Blessings.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Rome is known as the city upon seven hills. The Catholic Church proudly refers to itself as the "Roman Catholic Church."

Lorelei, Scripture says that the woman represents a great city. Not a church. Not a church in a great city. Not a church with the name of a city.

Are you adding to Scripture here?

Or are you saying that the Scriptures are in error?

 

[Lorelei]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined.

~Lorelei

 

[Carson Weber]

Question: It is interesting but could you imagine if a pope became born again?

Somebody hasn't been reading the writings of Pope John Paul II.

 

[Carson Weber]

Lorelei wrote, "The woman is also drunk with the blood of the saints. The Catholic Church wears that blood on her hands already.

Considering that the first 30+ successors to St. Peter the Apostle were martyred in Rome, I would say that the Catholic Church's hands are certainly bloody. Only, it's the RCC that has been partaking in the martus (i.e., "witness") against Pagan Rome.

"Hunt"ing the of Babylon:

http://www.catholic.com/library/hunting_the_whore_of_babylon.asp

 

[Jailminister]

Neal said

If so, be literal with the whole thing. The verse is talking about a woman. Be consistent, don't just take the parts you like and use them.

The Church(even a false church) is referred to in the feminine. eg. Bride of Christ. All the examples of the relationships between the husband and wife that you find in the bible also relates to the relationship between Jesus and His church. The woman in this context refers to a religous system(or false church). You see exactly how the catholic church sits upon many waters and has many children. These childen are actully part of the catholic church and also the spin offs of the catholic church. the attire is what the church hierarchy wears. it is just revealed to us in the revelation 17 passage. if you don't like that then just remove it from your bible. I will keep mine the way God made it.

 

[thessalonian]

I find it interesting in threads like this how Babylon is definitely Rome (and I agree, it was pagan Rome), yet when threads come up like Peter was never in Rome, "oh that wasn't Rome that Peter was talking about in his epistle, he was never there." (even though mounds of historical evidence say he was and noone doudted it until Calvin "infallibly" declared it false. But then that's another thread too I suppose.

Funny.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined.

~Lorelei </font>[/QUOTE]So what.

The Scripture clearly says that the woman is a city.

And that city sits on seven hills.

So again, are you adding to Scripture or saying that Scripture is in error?

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
Neal said </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If so, be literal with the whole thing. The verse is talking about a woman. Be consistent, don't just take the parts you like and use them.

The Church(even a false church) is referred to in the feminine. eg. Bride of Christ. All the examples of the relationships between the husband and wife that you find in the bible also relates to the relationship between Jesus and His church. The woman in this context refers to a religous system(or false church). You see exactly how the catholic church sits upon many waters and has many children. These childen are actully part of the catholic church and also the spin offs of the catholic church. the attire is what the church hierarchy wears. it is just revealed to us in the revelation 17 passage. if you don't like that then just remove it from your bible. I will keep mine the way God made it. </font>[/QUOTE]Doesn't your Bible also say that the woman is a city?

Are you adding to Scripture, or are you saying that Scripture is in error, when you say that the woman is a church instead of a city?

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined.

~Lorelei </font>[/QUOTE]It is "within" the city, but it does not comprise the entire city, nor is it the city.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
Neal said </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If so, be literal with the whole thing. The verse is talking about a woman. Be consistent, don't just take the parts you like and use them.

The Church(even a false church) is referred to in the feminine. eg. Bride of Christ. All the examples of the relationships between the husband and wife that you find in the bible also relates to the relationship between Jesus and His church. The woman in this context refers to a religous system(or false church). You see exactly how the catholic church sits upon many waters and has many children. These childen are actully part of the catholic church and also the spin offs of the catholic church. the attire is what the church hierarchy wears. it is just revealed to us in the revelation 17 passage. if you don't like that then just remove it from your bible. I will keep mine the way God made it. </font>[/QUOTE]The point, sir, is that if the "woman" is the Church, then the "Church" must be scarlet and all that. If it's a person wearing scarlet, then the person must be a woman. That is where you are quite inconsistent.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Rome is known as the city upon seven hills. The Catholic Church proudly refers to itself as the "Roman Catholic Church."

Actually, no, the Anglicans gave us that name; it is not the historic name. It is the Catholic Church. It's actually even more proper to say that "Roman Catholics" are Latin Rite Catholics.

 

[dumbox1]

This is getting worse and worse. Now, not only have I got to get rid of my purple shirt, but I've also got to clean out everything red or purple from my wife's closet and toss out her jewelry box. And her trip this weekend to visit her friend in Lynchburg -- which bills itself as "the city of seven hills" -- is DEFINITELY off.

She ain't gonna be happy ...

Mark

 

[Jailminister]

Grace saves said:

The point, sir, is that if the "woman" is the Church, then the "Church" must be scarlet and all that. If it's a person wearing scarlet, then the person must be a woman. That is where you are quite inconsistent.

No, I wish you would read what I said again. The woman is the catholic church and the head of of the catholic church is the pope and his cardinals. They REPRESENT the woman. This is very easy to understand if you have ears to hear.

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
Grace saves said: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The point, sir, is that if the "woman" is the Church, then the "Church" must be scarlet and all that. If it's a person wearing scarlet, then the person must be a woman. That is where you are quite inconsistent.

No, I wish you would read what I said again. The woman is the catholic church and the head of of the catholic church is the pope and his cardinals. They REPRESENT the woman. This is very easy to understand if you have ears to hear. </font>[/QUOTE]No, what's easy to understand is that you go from "the Church" to "those who represent the Church" when the Scriptures do not allow for such a change. Using that kind of logic, I could say that any devout Catholic who wears that color would be the same thing as the Cardinals, because lay Catholics "represent" the Church.

It's a bait and switch. Disagree all you like, it is.

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
No, I wish you would read what I said again. The woman is the catholic church and the head of of the catholic church is the pope and his cardinals. They REPRESENT the woman. This is very easy to understand if you have ears to hear.

Then you call the Scriptures a liar.

The Scriptures say that the woman is a city.

It does not say that the woman is a church.

 

[Jailminister]

Grace, it is not a "bait and switch". This is so easy that it is funny. The pope and the cardinals represent the woman(catholic church). This is not only pope john paul's attire, it has been the atire of the opes from the beginning. It is who they are and whay they are. You may not think that that has anything to do with individuals in the catholic church, butit does. You must get opeermission from the pope to marry or divorce. Catholic's bow at his feet and kiss his ring. they don't do that toeach other or to Jesus, but they do that to him. It is the pope who represents the woman(great whore, catholic church) and does so in their doctrine and in their attire. THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jailminister]

Trying2understand. Let me ask you about the city/woman/catholic church. Where is the headquarters? The Vatican, right. Right. Is the city part of Rome italy? NO, it is surrounded by Rome but not part of Rome. Is there any other business in Vatican City? NO. The catholic church is that CITY. THINK!!!!!!