If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

[1689Dave]

If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it? If they were to cease anyway? With everything else?


Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)

Notice the Revelation would also confirm them to the end. So they would not seek the gifts until the end. But only until the Revelation of Christ.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

So he was saying the gifts would expire with the Revelation of Jesus Christ that we now know was written by John in either 60 or 90 AD.

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation of Jesus Christ by Paul and John

 

[HankD]

If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Same reason for "death" Just stating the obvious for everyone's edification.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

[37818]

I see three things. Paul says it would be a time when he is "face to face, " 1 Corinthians 13:12. That when a "that which is perfect is come. . . ." Two speaking gifts said to be "in part" were spoken of being "done away," 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. James writes, ". . . Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, . . ," James 1:17. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Revelation 1:1, has a seal not to add to the hearing of it, Revelation 22:18. Which I understand brings an end to the speaking gifts of the Spirit. And would effectively make the two speaking gifts perfect, limiting those two gifts to what was written. The written word of God was always perfect (James 1:25). The exclution would be what was yet prophecied to be spoken.

 

[1689Dave]

If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Same reason for "death" Just stating the obvious for everyone's edification.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Really?

 

[HankD]

Really?

Yes Really.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes Really.

Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

 

[rockytopva]

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

 

[1689Dave]

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

 

[HankD]

Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

Prove it.

 

[Yeshua1]

If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it? If they were to cease anyway? With everything else?


Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)

Notice the Revelation would also confirm them to the end. So they would not seek the gifts until the end. But only until the Revelation of Christ.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

So he was saying the gifts would expire with the Revelation of Jesus Christ that we now know was written by John in either 60 or 90 AD.

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation of Jesus Christ by Paul and John

The Revelation, Second Coming, yet to happen!

 

[rockytopva]

Question: If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Answer: Because tongues is a poor indicator of spirituality
Answer: Because tongues can disrupt a church service
Answer: Because tongues can be out of order
Answer: Because tongues is not salvation

After all of that Paul says....

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

However there has to be order and decency in a church service and it is not the intention of Paul to have that disrupted.

 

[rockytopva]

With many thinking they have the Spirit of a God, in Pentecostal method or no, I find myself thinking to inform them that their ego is not the unction of God. When we had a plating department in our facility I worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.

Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!

"You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"

And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases religion can inhabit too much personal ego.

 

[InTheLight]

If tongues were to cease at the end of the world?

Would we call this a strawman?

Yes.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[rockytopva]

With many thinking they have the Spirit of a God, in Pentecostal method or no, I find myself thinking to inform them that their ego is not the unction of God. When we had a plating department in our facility I worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.

Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!

"You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"

And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases religion can inhabit too much personal ego.

Two points....

1. The Holy Spirit is not flesh
2. The Holy Spirit is not ego

If people are of the flesh and the ego I would recommend them seeking the blessing of the Holy Spirit. In which, if they have been properly sanctified, should not be that far away.

 

[rockytopva]

I worked with three ladies in my factory making samples. These ladies were all Baptist, cheerful, decent, and I would not doubt if they were to tell me they were Spirit filled. Especially as I don't see the otherwise in their character. And this was also true of the old people in the Baptist church I was brought up in. They continued in the way they were brought up in.

I would question, with many these days, Pentecostal or no, their so-called spirituality. Especially as they are so carnally minded.

 

[1689Dave]

The Revelation, Second Coming, yet to happen!

Paul said the Revelation would also confirm us to the end. So it's not at the end. It happened when John published Revelation. If you take scripture at face value.

 

[1689Dave]

Prove it.

Do you think scripture is perfect? It thoroughly furnishes us? If not, listen to the bumper crop of Charismatics on YouTube and become enlightened.

 

[HankD]

Do you think scripture is perfect? It thoroughly furnishes us? If not, listen to the bumper crop of Charismatics on YouTube and become enlightened.

Dave, nowhere in this thread have I made my own beliefs known.

You have made a claim on a Discussion/Debate Forum and I am simply asking you to prove it. Can you do it without YouTube?

Since you are relatively new to the BB I have been known to play "the devil's advocate". Just so you know.

Yes scripture is perfect.

 

[kyredneck]

The Revelation, Second Coming, yet to happen!

Second Coming dunn come and gone.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3
I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12
And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, nowhere in this thread have I made my own beliefs known.

You have made a claim on a Discussion/Debate Forum and I am simply asking you to prove it. Can you do it without YouTube?

Since you are relatively new to the BB I have been known to play "the devil's advocate". Just so you know.

Yes scripture is perfect.

I already proved it in my OP. How do you disprove that?

 

[HankD]

I already proved it in my OP. How do you disprove that?

I never said I wanted to disprove it.

But your argument is little weak IMO and needs more scripture..

Look at Hebrews.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
spoken indicative aorist active - completed action in past time.

By his Son includes those whom He sent:
Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

"And was confirmed" Again aorist tense - If the message was confirmed and now codified then no more codified message, signs, wonders, miracles or gifts of the Holy Ghost are needed.