If we are ever spiritually dead we would be dead indeed

[Revmitchell]

Two things:

1. The KJV is not the end all be all.
2. The verse is Ephesians 2:5. Also Col. 2:12-13,

This is why the KJV is outdated. You think that it doesn't say "Made alive with Christ." you are correct. In the KJV it says "quickened" and I bet you did not know that word means, "to give or restore life to."

This just is a proven point that people need an updated translation because many people do not know/understand the old English and they do not take the time to look it up and understand it.

By the way his position of uh not being spiritually dead prior to Christ is an anomaly.

 

[MB]

Um, you ignored 90% of my post and went off on a diatribe about the KJV. I would suggest you read my post again because I did, in fact, show were we are made alive in Christ. You simply ignored it.

Yes but not where we need to be made alive in Christ. I suppose you forgot what you said originally.
Do you know when you were made alive in Christ?
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

By the way his position of uh not being spiritually dead prior to Christ is an anomaly.

Yes I am aware. I know you, and others who are on the "other side" are reasonable with your beliefs and don't just disagree with "our side" because we are the ones saying something. When you disagree with us you at least put logical reasoning (for the most part ) behind your position.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes but not where we need to be made alive in Christ. I suppose you forgot what you said originally.
Do you know when you were made alive in Christ?
MB

Does Ephesians 2:5 say we are made alive with Christ or not?

 

[MB]

Does Ephesians 2:5 say we are made alive with Christ or not?

Yes but it does not say we need to be as you have previously claimed. When were you made alive in Christ.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes but it does not say we need to be as you have previously claimed. When were you made alive in Christ.

You get way too caught up on some things. If we were dead, we need to be made alive. We are made alive when we are saved. The POINT of this though is to PROVE that we ARE spiritually dead before regeneration, which you claimed we are not.

 

[MB]

By the way his position of uh not being spiritually dead prior to Christ is an anomaly.

For your reading pleasure.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Oh great master of the scriptures please explain James claiming that with out the spirit the body is dead. If in fact we are literally dead.
MB

 

[MB]

You get way too caught up on some things. If we were dead, we need to be made alive. We are made alive when we are saved. The POINT of this though is to PROVE that we ARE spiritually dead before regeneration, which you claimed we are not.

The problem as I see it isn't what I believe so much as you ignoring what you do not wish to answer. No where have you shown where scripture says we need to be made alive. To be made alive in Christ is to have eternal life. This is life eternal life. When were you made alive in Christ?
MB

 

[MB]

David;
Should I assume that you don't know when you were made alive in Christ?
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

The problem as I see it isn't what I believe so much as you ignoring what you do not wish to answer. No where have you shown where scripture says we need to be made alive. To be made alive in Christ is to have eternal life. This is life eternal life. When were you made alive in Christ?
MB

What is the opposite of alive?

 

[Reformed1689]

The problem as I see it isn't what I believe so much as you ignoring what you do not wish to answer. No where have you shown where scripture says we need to be made alive. To be made alive in Christ is to have eternal life. This is life eternal life. When were you made alive in Christ?
MB

No the problem, clearly, is that you want to argue for sake of arguing. You attack into absurdity just so you don't have to agree with someone who does not agree with you or you don't like. It just makes you look foolish.

 

[MB]

You get way too caught up on some things. If we were dead, we need to be made alive. We are made alive when we are saved. The POINT of this though is to PROVE that we ARE spiritually dead before regeneration, which you claimed we are not.

Did I claim or did I question it. You are unable to give a proper explanation you ignore the scripture I gave you James 2:26 The reason for my questioning.
MB

 

[MB]

What is the opposite of alive?

If you can't answer my questions why should I answer yours?
MB

 

[MB]

No the problem, clearly, is that you want to argue for sake of arguing. You attack into absurdity just so you don't have to agree with someone who does not agree with you or you don't like. It just makes you look foolish.

Actually this is a one sided argument you never want to answer my questions I suspect that you can't answer because you just do not know. and you do know what I'm talking about. By avoiding the question, proves you don't know.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Actually this is a one sided argument you never want to answer my questions I suspect that you can't answer because you just do not know. and you do know what I'm talking about. By avoiding the question, proves you don't know.
MB

No, your question is irrelevant to the topic. It's talking about two totally different things.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

For your reading pleasure.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Oh great master of the scriptures please explain James claiming that with out the spirit the body is dead. If in fact we are literally dead.
MB

[Jas 2:26 KJV] 26 For as the body without the spirit [G4151] is dead, [G3498] so faith without works is dead also.

The KJV translates Strong's G3498 in the following manner: dead (132x).

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

properly

one that has breathed his last, lifeless

deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell

destitute of life, without life, inanimate

metaph.

spiritually dead

destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins

inactive as respects doing right

destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


The word “dead” in James 2:26 is used metaphor.

Definition of metaphorically | Dictionary.com

Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”

 

[Van]

False teachers read false doctrine into vague phrases.

We are conceived spiritually dead because we were "made sinners." Thus unholy, thus separated from God.

And to be spiritually dead results in limitations. Being spiritually dead we could do nothing by ourselves to make us holy and therefore able to unite with our holy God. False doctrine adds we cannot seek God at any time or fully trust in the gospel. But there is no support for this man-made addition to the limitations of being spiritually dead.

 

[MB]

[Jas 2:26 KJV] 26 For as the body without the spirit [G4151] is dead, [G3498] so faith without works is dead also.

The KJV translates Strong's G3498 in the following manner: dead (132x).

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

properly

one that has breathed his last, lifeless

deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell

destitute of life, without life, inanimate

metaph.

spiritually dead

destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins

inactive as respects doing right

destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


The word “dead” in James 2:26 is used metaphor.

Definition of metaphorically | Dictionary.com

Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”

Actually the reverse is true Paul uses it as a metaphor not James.
Calvinist have claimed that in order for man to understand the gospel he must be regenerated. If man does not understand the gospel then he cannot have faith before Salvation. Faith come by hearing it is not some gift that is given to man. The gift is Salvation in eph. 2:8-9.
MB

 

[MB]

No, your question is irrelevant to the topic. It's talking about two totally different things.

This is what I mean you don't know the answer.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

This is what I mean you don't know the answer.
MB

Not sure how you get that from me saying it is irrelevant (because it is) but anyways...

James 2:26 is referring to the fact that if the spirit of a person is not within a body the physical body is dead. That has nothing to do with being spiritually dead. I know this must be hard for you to grasp but that is why I said it is irrelevant because we are talking about two TOTALLY different things.