If we are ever spiritually dead we would be dead indeed

[MB]

David
You refuse to answer because you can't and you know it. It is not irrelevant.

 

[MB]

By the way his position of uh not being spiritually dead prior to Christ is an anomaly.

Hypocrites are always out.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

David
You refuse to answer because you can't and you know it. It is not irrelevant.

Um, you realized I answered in the post directly in front of this one? Post #40.

 

[Dave G]

Two things:

1. The KJV is not the end all be all.
2. The verse is Ephesians 2:5. Also Col. 2:12-13,

This is why the KJV is outdated. You think that it doesn't say "Made alive with Christ." you are correct. In the KJV it says "quickened" and I bet you did not know that word means, "to give or restore life to."

This just is a proven point that people need an updated translation because many people do not know/understand the old English and they do not take the time to look it up and understand it.

1) I agree.

But to me, it's far better than almost everything I've seen in the English, to date.
Personally, I cannot think of any English translation that I would recommend more for its accuracy, than the AV.

2) Agreed.
Those are two of the passages that come to mind.

As for the "KJV" being "outdated", I think that it is often thought of this way because the English it was translated into, has become more and more "distanced" with time.
However, that does not mean that it cannot be understood.

I've read it all my life, and it has only become more and more familiar, like a favorite blanket, over that time.
Yes, I agree that an updated translation would solve quite a few minor misunderstandings about the text.

Still, I understood that "quickened" = "made alive" some years ago, and I didn't even need a newer translation in my own language to tell me that.
All I had to do was look up "quickened" in the dictionary, and use that definition.


Side note:
In La Sainte Bible, Louis Segond edition ( French TR translation ), the phrase "quickened together with Him " ( Greek, "συζωοποιέω", transliterated into English as " syzōopoieō " and meaning " he-together-makes-alive " ), is " rendus à la vie avec lui ", or "returned to life with Him" in Colossians 2:13.



As I see it, persistence and a love of ( and desire to know ) the Bible thoroughly ( in whatever language it's written in ) are all that's really needed.

 

[MB]

Not sure how you get that from me saying it is irrelevant (because it is) but anyways...

James 2:26 is referring to the fact that if the spirit of a person is not within a body the physical body is dead. That has nothing to do with being spiritually dead. I know this must be hard for you to grasp but that is why I said it is irrelevant because we are talking about two TOTALLY different things.

No that isn't what the question was about It's alright David.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

No that isn't what the question was about It's alright David.
MB

So, as usual, you ignore the substance of the post because you can't argue against it. Typical.

 

[Revmitchell]

With out the spirit to quicken our flesh the flesh would die.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Is the flesh also dead in this verse below?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
How is it we can be literally dead to sin and still be alive unless the term "dead" is used to represent something else other than being actually dead.
If the body is dead so is the spirit of man and if the spirit is dead so is the flesh of the man
MB

Honestly I have no idea what you are trying to say here. That is because I am giving you the benefit of the doubt otherwise at face value you do not appear to have a grasp on this issue at all.

Death without any context simply means to be separated. Spiritual death means to be spiritually separated from God. In other words no relationship. Literally no relationship.

Our use of the word death when we physically die does not define the word death it only gives it context.

 

[MB]

Honestly I have no idea what you are trying to say here. That is because I am giving you the benefit of the doubt otherwise at face value you do not appear to have a grasp on this issue at all.

Death without any context simply means to be separated. Spiritual death means to be spiritually separated from God. In other words no relationship. Literally no relationship.

Our use of the word death when we physically die does not define the word death it only gives it context.

My Point is that many Calvinist claim that man is unable to respond to the gospel because there spirit is dead. They mean it is literally dead not separation from God. If the spirit is literally dead as they describe death as in inanimate. Then the body is dead also because the body can not live with out it's spirit
Of course I can agree that man is separated from God before Salvation but this separation does not mean man cannot respond to the gospel message. No where in scripture does it ever say man is unable to respond to the gospel.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

My Point is that many Calvinist claim that man is unable to respond to the gospel because there spirit is dead. They mean it is literally dead not separation from God. If the spirit is literally dead as they describe death as in inanimate. Then the body is dead also because the body can not live with out it's spirit
Of course I can agree that man is separated from God before Salvation but this separation does not mean man cannot respond to the gospel message. No where in scripture does it ever say man is unable to respond to the gospel.
MB

And, as @Revmitchell pointed out to you, you do not have a grasp on this issue.

 

[MB]

So, as usual, you ignore the substance of the post because you can't argue against it. Typical.

If it makes you happy to think what ever you want, by all means do so. I'm done answering your questions and speaking to you at all. I will not be drawn in to a conversation with you anymore.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

If it makes you happy to think what ever you want, by all means do so. I'm done answering your questions and speaking to you at all. I will not be drawn in to a conversation with you anymore.
MB

You didn't answer a question, I answered YOUR question and then you ignored my answer.

 

[Revmitchell]

My Point is that many Calvinist claim that man is unable to respond to the gospel because there spirit is dead. They mean it is literally dead not separation from God. If the spirit is literally dead as they describe death as in inanimate. Then the body is dead also because the body can not live with out it's spirit
Of course I can agree that man is separated from God before Salvation but this separation does not mean man cannot respond to the gospel message. No where in scripture does it ever say man is unable to respond to the gospel.
MB

In my experience, to include this board, it is about the totality of depravity not the literalness of the spiritual death.

I disagree with them but we need to be fair to their argument.

 

[MB]

In my experience, to include this board, it is about the totality of depravity not the literalness of the spiritual death.

I disagree with them but we need to be fair to their argument.

In what way have I been unfair?
MB

 

[Revmitchell]

In what way have I been unfair?
MB

I doubt it was your intention but I wanted to clear up the issue. There is no depth of dead. Dead is dead. There is depth to depravity and what you are attempting to address should be dealt with in the area of depravity not death.

 

[Alan Gross]

How is physical death related to spiritual death? | GotQuestions.org

"Question: "How is physical death related to spiritual death?"

Answer: The Bible has a great deal to say about death and, more importantly, what happens after death. Physical death and spiritual death are both a separation of one thing from another. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God. When understood in that way, the two concepts are very closely related, and both physical death and spiritual death are reflected in the very first references to death."


Go the link above to read the complete article.

Then, Physical Death following Spiritual Death, is The Second Death.

 

[1689Dave]

With out the spirit to quicken our flesh the flesh would die.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Is the flesh also dead in this verse below?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
How is it we can be literally dead to sin and still be alive unless the term "dead" is used to represent something else other than being actually dead.
If the body is dead so is the spirit of man and if the spirit is dead so is the flesh of the man
MB

As I understand spiritual death is the conscious state of the damned in life and in hell. In this condition we cannot know God in any good way. And our spirit is enslaved to the flesh. But for some, God circumcises our hearts (provides the new birth) freeing us from slavery to the flesh and making us alive unto him.

 

[MB]

I doubt it was your intention but I wanted to clear up the issue. There is no depth of dead. Dead is dead. There is depth to depravity and what you are attempting to address should be dealt with in the area of depravity not death.

How many Calvinist minds have you changed?
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

How many Calvinist minds have you changed?
MB

You are getting so caught up on Calvinism for no reason. You do realize Calvinists are not the only ones who believe we were spiritually dead before salvation right? I'm sure @Revmitchell and others believe this too.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Then, Physical Death following Spiritual Death, is The Second Death.

The second death mentioned in revelation is a result of dying physically while being spiritually dead. Believers who die physically while having spiritual life do not suffer "second death".

What is the second death? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the second death?"

"Answer: The second death is mentioned on multiple occasions in the book of Revelation and is synonymous with the lake of fire. It is a “death” in that it is a separation from God, the Giver of life. It is called the “second” one because it follows physical death.

Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”"

 

[Alan Gross]

The second death mentioned in revelation is a result of dying physically while being spiritually dead. Believers who die physically while having spiritual life do not suffer "second death".

What is the second death? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the second death?"

"Answer: The second death is mentioned on multiple occasions in the book of Revelation and is synonymous with the lake of fire. It is a “death” in that it is a separation from God, the Giver of life. It is called the “second” one because it follows physical death.

Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”"

Yes, so the First, Pysical Life, contains Physical Life.

That Physical Life is Spiritually Dead.

Then, if the Spiritually Dead, Die, Pysically, they are Twice Dead.

The Second Death.