If You Had Your Druthers...

[Yeshua1]

which would you choose. 1) to hear substandard sermons by a KJVO preacher Or, solid sermons by a pastor using the NIV?
My senior pastor uses the Niv 2011 as his primary text, and is solid in teaching !
Of course it's a hypothetical. But it's useful to ponder the implications.

Now, now, don't get your feathers ruffled. I am not speaking of KJV preferred. I'm talking about KJVO to the extent that many KJVO churches have that distinctive plastered on a sign in front of the building. No other churches have signs which hold up a particular Bible Translation as a doctrinal distinctive.

No other churches devote sermon time to denouncing other Bible translations.

So if the NIV pastor is delivering sermons in an expository manner, and the KJVO preacher is not, wouldn't that give you pause?

 

[Yeshua1]

It's too late to change it now. I meant :
What notable passages would you cite in which the message and meaning of the NIV is so radically different than that of the KJV?

Psalm 8?

 

[Yeshua1]

The worst sermon can produce the best results, as witness how Spurgeon got saved.

The best sermon is one led and empowered by the Holy Spirit which proclaims the truth as correctly translated.

Interesting that the Lord used just one verse in Isaiah delivered by a "ploughboy" to save Spurgeon!

 

[Yeshua1]

which would you choose. 1) to hear substandard sermons by a KJVO preacher Or, solid sermons by a pastor using the NIV?

Of course it's a hypothetical. But it's useful to ponder the implications.

Now, now, don't get your feathers ruffled. I am not speaking of KJV preferred. I'm talking about KJVO to the extent that many KJVO churches have that distinctive plastered on a sign in front of the building. No other churches have signs which hold up a particular Bible Translation as a doctrinal distinctive.

No other churches devote sermon time to denouncing other Bible translations.

So if the NIV pastor is delivering sermons in an expository manner, and the KJVO preacher is not, wouldn't that give you pause?

Always best to have a pastor giving forth the word of the lord . regardless of his chosen translation!

 

[37818]

Just do as I asked. Reword what you were trying to say.

There are more than the two issues as you proposed it. A solid message can for examples, could be made from Acts of the Apostles 8:37 or 1 John 5:6-8. A mediocre message can be made using any translation. I personally disagree with the KJV 1 John 5:7-8 text, and I prefer the KJV over most modern trandlstions that correctly correct it because they have far more textual problems.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

In your post #21 you quoted by OP without saying anything about it. What's up with that?

 

[RipponRedeaux]

There are more than the two issues as you proposed it. A solid message can for examples, could be made from Acts of the Apostles 8:37 or 1 John 5:6-8. A mediocre message can be made using any translation. I personally disagree with the KJV 1 John 5:7-8 text, and I prefer the KJV over most modern trandlstions [sic]that correctly correct it because they have far more textual problems.

Read my OP and my post #11 to understand that your post has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[37818]

And just to be clear, the choice is between a substandard KJVO preacher and an expositional, solid sermon by a preacher using the NIV. I don't mean a KJV preacher, but a KJVO preacher. A KJVO preacher normally includes denunciations of other Bible versions and extolls the KJV during the course of his message. Not only is valuable time wasted, but the people are being led astray.

Well that is your intent. What you proposed is irrelevant.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Psalm 8?

Tell me, are verses 6 to 8 speaking of the same people as in verses 4 & 5 ? Or, in your case the same person?

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Well that is your intent. What you proposed is irrelevant.

You are making no sense. I spelled the context out specifically.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

If you compare the NIV with the KJV you will find a lot of archaic expressions and poor English. The latter is no standard.

I would just add a little comment here, that it's fairly common in my community to hear archaic things and sometimes our speech fits more with the KJV than other areas of the U.S. So it's not totally archaic throughout the U.S, although even here it's 'mostly' archaic.

You said that if the choice was between the KJVO and the NIV you'd pick the KJVO pastor. What notable passages would you cite in which the message and meaning of the NIV is so radically different than that of the KJV? If you can't think of any than you are just blowing smoke.

(I added the correction you mentioned into the quote here in red, just so you/others don't think I misquoted you )
My complaint against most of the modern translations isn't necessarily that the meaning of a passage is going to be radically changed, so much as it's going to be watered down.

For example, I prefer the word "Conversation" in the KJV to the word "Conduct" in the NIV in 1 Timothy 4:12. "Conversation" has an all-pervasive kind of definition whereas conduct seems limited to a "behavior" definition. The ESV and NKJV also use conduct in this verse, but are overall more precise than the NIV when I read them.

In other words, older English was much more expressive and precise whereas newer English is less expressive, and less precise. I have this exact same issue with modern Christian music where the current mainstream English dialect often falls short of precision.

There's also the issue of 1 Corinthians 6:9 in the KJV vs NIV. The KJV is quite clear on the list of sin there. The NIV groups it all up as "immoral". For obvious reasons I'm not going to discuss this in too much depth, but there are other verses in scripture where such behavior is explicitly mentioned and castigated in the KJV whereas the NIV does not seem to take as much of a hardline stance.

Another thing I had mentioned in the OP, are you comfortable with a pastor denouncing other Bible versions when he is supposed to be driven to the text and delivering a faithful message to believers?

In some cases yes. I am fine with him denouncing the gender neutral versions and any other liberal versions. I am fine with him denouncing the Message Bible as well, or Roman Catholic Bible versions. I am fine with him denouncing the NIV for the lack of precision.

I would not be ok with him denouncing other versions that I would rate as "more solid" such as NKJV, ESV, NASB, etc.

 

[37818]

You are making no sense. I spelled the context out specifically.

Only because your intent is not to what I had answered. You only what to counter mediocre KJVO preaching.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Only because your intent is not to what I had answered. You only what to counter mediocre KJVO preaching.

For at least the third time. I was not dealing with KJV preaching, but KJVO preaching.

 

[37818]

For at least the third time. I was not dealing with KJV preaching, but KJVO preaching.

Here is an about an hour message by a real KJVO preacher:

 

[Yeshua1]

In your post #21 you quoted by OP without saying anything about it. What's up with that?

meant to add that its always best to have a biblical based and accurate sermon regardless of translation used!

 

[RipponRedeaux]

For example, I prefer the word "Conversation" in the KJV to the word "Conduct" in the NIV in 1 Timothy 4:12. "Conversation" has an all-pervasive kind of definition whereas conduct seems limited to a "behavior" definition. The ESV and NKJV also use conduct in this verse, but are overall more precise than the NIV when I read them.

The commonly understood meaning of the word 'conversation' meant one's conduct or behavior. Even in the Wycliffe translation the word 'living' was used. It refers to the way one lives their life. So the word conduct is perfectly acceptable. It expresses the meaning quite well.

You will have to cite other examples of this "overall" precision that the KJV has versus the NIV.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

There's also the issue of 1 Corinthians 6:9 in the KJV vs NIV. The KJV is quite clear on the list of sin there. The NIV groups it all up as "immoral". For obvious reasons I'm not going to discuss this in too much depth, but there are other verses in scripture where such behavior is explicitly mentioned and castigated in the KJV whereas the NIV does not seem to take as much of a hardline stance.

It's against BB rules to get into specifics on this topic. But just cite the references in which you think the KJV is superior in this area and that the NIV renderings are inferior. Just the references.

 

[Yeshua1]

Tell me, are verses 6 to 8 speaking of the same people as in verses 4 & 5 ? Or, in your case the same person?

Was a Messianic Psalm!

 

[Yeshua1]

The commonly understood meaning of the word 'conversation' meant one's conduct or behavior. Even in the Wycliffe translation the word 'living' was used. It refers to the way one lives their life. So the word conduct is perfectly acceptable. It expresses the meaning quite well.

You will have to cite other examples of this "overall" precision that the KJV has versus the NIV.

Yes, as today would mean our behavior!

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Tell me, are verses 6 to 8 speaking of the same people as in verses 4 & 5 ? Or, in your case the same person?

Y-1, please answer the simple, direct question I posed.