Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
Which is what you said, right? That it was a comparison? Not literal?
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If you receive the mark of the beast, you will lose eternal life
- Thread starter evangelist-7
- Start date
Which is what you said, right? That it was a comparison? Not literal?
No, Jesus said you must be born again. He didn't say you must become something like being born again.
evangelist-7
New Member
Just keep on keepin' on ... ignoring the fact that you guys 'n gals
will need to be martyrs by refusing to take the mark of the beast
to keep your eternal life (that is, if you actually have it now to lose).
I.E. Many millions of "believers" have gone to hell believing they were believers.
.
That is called question begging, assuming as fact we will be here to take the mark. I believe Scripture is clear we will not. I don't have to do anything to keep it. As the Scripture I supplied earlier shows (that you ironically fail to address at all), Christ has the sealed deed to my salvation, not me.
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
It must be sad to believe God turns His back on His personal guarantees
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Another one they don't like is 1John3:9, when God says the born again spirit cannot sin, because His seed remaineth. They will ignore it all day....
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God "guarantees" that "His WORD cannot be broken".
His WORD informs us of the danger of "Forgiveness revoked" in Matt 18.
His WORD informs us of the fact that those who stand by their faith "should FEAR ...for if HE did not spare them neither will HE spare you.,.. but He is able to graft THEM in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"
His WORD informs us of the "Severed from Christ" and "Fallen from grace" danger for the saved should they turn from their perseverance.
Paul tells Timothy to take pains with these things :"for AS you do this you will ensure salvation for yourself and those that hear you".
Paul says of his own experience "I do ALL things for the sake of the GOSPEL that I may be a fellow partaker of it... I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified". 1cor 9.
in Christ,
Bob
His WORD informs us of the danger of "Forgiveness revoked" in Matt 18.
His WORD informs us of the fact that those who stand by their faith "should FEAR ...for if HE did not spare them neither will HE spare you.,.. but He is able to graft THEM in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"
His WORD informs us of the "Severed from Christ" and "Fallen from grace" danger for the saved should they turn from their perseverance.
Paul tells Timothy to take pains with these things :"for AS you do this you will ensure salvation for yourself and those that hear you".
Paul says of his own experience "I do ALL things for the sake of the GOSPEL that I may be a fellow partaker of it... I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified". 1cor 9.
in Christ,
Bob
Amen! :thumbs:
Jn4:14 - "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."
Jn10:28 - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish"
Your typical man-made doctrine.
New doctrine from a parable is no doctrine at all; in fact it is false doctrine.
More error. The context is the nation of Israel. When you ignore context the end result is false doctrine.
No context; no truth.
He never spoke of salvation from hell. Again you ignore context.
No context; no truth.
He never mentioned being disqualified from going to heaven or from being a Christian. He was speaking of Christian service.
Again:
No context; no truth--only false doctrine here to spread around
Just ignore it folks!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BobRyan
God "guarantees" that "His WORD cannot be broken".
His WORD informs us of the danger of "Forgiveness revoked" in Matt 18.
DHK said:
Those who are married to "any ol excuse will do to ignore a text in the Bible" will dismiss the teaching of Christ in Matt 18 as "false doctrine" apparently.
But when we read the actual text of Matt 18 we find that all their excuses fall flat.
Notice that ALL the following - are "the word of Christ" himself being called "false doctrine" by some here today.
Matt 18
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Now this is where the "any old excuse" crowd would love to have the chapter end so that they would have an "excuse" for ignoring the teaching of Christ - claiming it is all just parable so pay no attention.
But instead of the chapter ending - it continues on with the words of Christ OUTSIDE the parable
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
This is what is can be called a "refer back" as Christ pulls an actual detail from the parable and claims it will apply even while the naysayers claim that the parable is false doctrine.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
His WORD informs us of the fact that those who stand by their faith "should FEAR ...for if HE did not spare them neither will HE spare you.,.. but He is able to graft THEM in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief"
More error from the "any old excuse" crowd who again love to ignore the inconvenient details IN the text.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
You are saved by grace through FAITH - and the issue is "unbelief" no salvation while in unbelief Not even if TODAy you are standing by faith - but later sink into unbelief.
In fact the pointless idea that this is only a warning to Jews is ignoring the explicit warning to "YOU" who "Stand by faith" and are NOT among the Jews that doubt or disbelieve.
Another inconvenient "detail" in the text to be labeled as 'false doctrine' by those using the "any ol excuse will do" model I suppose. Well they have free will they can choose the consequences of that path if they wish.
All I can do is point to the Bible details "by contrast".
in Christ,
Bob
DHK said:
More error from the "any old excuse" crowd who again love to ignore the inconvenient details IN the text.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
You are saved by grace through FAITH - and the issue is "unbelief" no salvation while in unbelief Not even if TODAy you are standing by faith - but later sink into unbelief.
In fact the pointless idea that this is only a warning to Jews is ignoring the explicit warning to "YOU" who "Stand by faith" and are NOT among the Jews that doubt or disbelieve.
Another inconvenient "detail" in the text to be labeled as 'false doctrine' by those using the "any ol excuse will do" model I suppose. Well they have free will they can choose the consequences of that path if they wish.
All I can do is point to the Bible details "by contrast".
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Paul says of his own experience "I do ALL things for the sake of the GOSPEL that I may be a fellow partaker of it... I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified". 1cor 9.
By contrast the text actually says
"I do ALL things for the sake of the GOSPEL that I may be a fellow partaker of it..
Turns out in 1Cor 9 Paul admits that the benefit of being a partaker of the Gospel is "salvation" not "more toys in heaven" or "the chance to preach" as the "any ol excuse" school of Bible students might have it.
"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
The point of being a partaker IN the actual Gospel is salvation according to "the text" - as much as this might displease some in the man-made-tradition of OSAS.
in Christ,
bob
DHK said:
By contrast the text actually says
"I do ALL things for the sake of the GOSPEL that I may be a fellow partaker of it..
Turns out in 1Cor 9 Paul admits that the benefit of being a partaker of the Gospel is "salvation" not "more toys in heaven" or "the chance to preach" as the "any ol excuse" school of Bible students might have it.
"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
The point of being a partaker IN the actual Gospel is salvation according to "the text" - as much as this might displease some in the man-made-tradition of OSAS.
in Christ,
bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
His WORD informs us of the "Severed from Christ" and "Fallen from grace" Gal 5:4 danger for the saved should they turn from their perseverance.
Obviously Romans 6 says that those who are saved, who are born again are "under Grace" and so they alone can 'fall from it' - you cannot fall from what you do not have. Same for those in John 15 and Gal 5:4 "who are IN Christ" being "Severed FROM Christ" - you cannot be severed FROM that which you are not joined TO.
Just stating the obvious for those not married to "any ol excuse will do".
Again - we have "more bible to be ignored" as "no truth" - at least if you are married to OSAS at all costs.
I have free will too - and I choose not to deny scripture as "false doctrine' and as "no truth" all in blind service to the man-made tradition of OSAS.
in Christ,
Bob
Obviously Romans 6 says that those who are saved, who are born again are "under Grace" and so they alone can 'fall from it' - you cannot fall from what you do not have. Same for those in John 15 and Gal 5:4 "who are IN Christ" being "Severed FROM Christ" - you cannot be severed FROM that which you are not joined TO.
Just stating the obvious for those not married to "any ol excuse will do".
DHK said:
Again - we have "more bible to be ignored" as "no truth" - at least if you are married to OSAS at all costs.
I have free will too - and I choose not to deny scripture as "false doctrine' and as "no truth" all in blind service to the man-made tradition of OSAS.
in Christ,
Bob
YOUR doctrine, Bob, is false. We all know it is.
There are no excuses for unbelief; neither are there excuses for twisting and perverting the Word of God.
I will answer this post today. I will demonstrate your answer is blatant false teaching.
The parable is not false doctrine. No one ever said that. Your interpretation of the parable is false doctrine. Get that much straight. There is no such doctrine as "forgiveness revoked" except in the realm of heresy.
What does the parable teach then?
The parable is divided into two parts, the contrast coming at verse 28. The same servant (who had just been forgiven) was now unwilling to forgive a fellow servant of a debt of a hundred pence (about ten dollars). Remember that he had been forgiven of a far greater debt.
This entire situation is presented as a hypothetical situation.
This would be unbelievable; so unbelievable that it would be just as unbelievable for a Christian disciple who has been forgiven all of his sins (past, present and future), to be unforgiving of others.
--Remember the context of forgiveness. "How often shall I forgive my brother? Seven times Lord?" "I say unto you seventy times seven." (vs.21,22)
--This also is hypothetical and hyperbole.
In the parable such an unforgiving servant is called a "wicked servant" because no true believer would ever do such a thing.
A truly saved man would never behave like the man in the parable, who was delivered to the tormentors (also "jailers"). This behavior is characteristic of the lost not the saved, and thus the consequent condemnation is just.
True forgiveness "from the heart" of a regenerate man, is one of the signs of genuine salvation. Saved people are both forgiven (eternally) and forgiving (18:21,22)--CONTEXT!!!
As usual you fail to take into consideration the context.
Paul is describing what has happened to the nation of Israel, and in so doing he does give the Gentile believers an admonition to live by faith and live righteously--not in the light, however, that they would lose their salvation. That is made clear if you go as far as verse 25:
Rom 11:25
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (ESV)
This blindness or hardening has come upon Israel for a temporary period of time. For how long? Until the fulness of the Gentiles has come. One cannot lose their salvation; it is secure, eternally secured in the hand of God right until the Coming of Christ, and that is the time referred to here.
"God is able to graft them in again." He will in the Millennial Kingdom.
"Be not high-minded; but fear." It is a warning, an admonition; not a threat of losing one's salvation.
Bob your post is hardly worth answering. It is lame. It is proof texting without a text to proof. And you have nothing here. Look at it:
1Co 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
First, the entire passage is directed to believers.
Second, all believers are in a race. We all run this race whether we want to or not. We run this race (See Heb.12:1,2)
Third, we all finish this race.
Fourth, the race is not about salvation, but about rewards. (run that you may obtain a reward--not salvation). Salvation is not and never was in the picture.
Fifth, the contrasts used are all about rewards.
--the corruptible crown vs. the incorruptible crown
--the Olympic race vs. the Christian race; and the consequent reward.
Sixth, it is not about salvation it is about service, and its consequent rewards. Therefore verse 27 which says:
1Co 9:27
27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. (ESV)
means disqualified from service; "castaway" (KJV) or "set on the shelf" for service. Read 1Tim.3:1ff and see the many ways a pastor can disqualify himself from the pastorate. Paul didn't want this to happen to him. It doesn't have anything to do with salvation. Paul never contradicts himself; but you have Paul contradicting himself.
evangelist-7
New Member
I get so sick and tired of moronic postings, such as the aboveski!
The "them"s and the "they"s are a special breed of cat,
who hear Jesus' voice ... and who follow Him.
IMO, many BACs fail on both counts.
Warning: you must understand what "following" Jesus entails!
It does NOT mean only receiving God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation.
.
evangelist-7
New Member
Do you believe there will be ANY of the millions of BACs worldwide
who will choose to take the mark of the beast?
Now, of course, we realize that an honest qvestion does NOT quarantee any kind of honest answer!
However, shall we compile a handy-dandy list of ...
Reasons why a BAC would make this most grievous of mistakes!
I'll start a list here with a short trinity of reasons:
1) -- ignorant of the warning in Rev 14
2) -- hoping the Rev 14 warning is bogus (i.e. Rev is largely symbolic)
3) -- holding onto life (even for a few more years) is the #1 priority
Yes, be thee not deceived ... MANY BACs will take the mark of the beast
and lose any eternal life they might have (up 'til that point in time)!
And, the qvestion to be avoided @ all costs ... What does this do to OSAS?
Anyone have a dumpster handy?
.
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evangelist-7
New Member
We actually have a guy here who left the RCC,
supposedly because of their doctrinal errors ...
... and has hooked up with the Baptists,
who have their own share of doctrinal errors!
Gee, which doctrinal errors shall we choose to be in bed with today?
For the sake of variety ...
can we switch back and forth on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis?
Velly interesting qvestion indeed!
.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
You realize that your argument is useless to a pre-trib rapture believer, right?
Amen! E7 is lacking sorely in spiritual understanding, makes me wonder if he had the Spirit baptism yet. Or could be he is just a babe yet in Christ needing mature guidance, but that won't happen til he finds humility. Maybe it will take that fall from pride.